Somone brought it to my attention that the Cult Awareness List is a pretty questionable list. After some review, I decided to remove the link to it. If someone has other information, please post it here on the blog. I think that "Twisted Scriptures" describes LFF and other churches like LFF well enough.
DPR!!!
DPR,I got this by way of e-mail today and it is exactly what I needed to hear - probably on a daily basis. I am constantly haunted by things LFF leadership said or did to me and though I feel I have moved on and forgiven as best I can I am aware daily of the impact their words and deeds continue to have on me. I read the blog from time to time and see so many other ex-LFFers still in so much pain. I've continued to hold on to dead friendships from that place, wrong images and deep hurts. This message by T.D. Jakes is very releasing to me and I hope it can help others too.
**By Bishop T. D. Jakes, Dallas, Texas
There are people who can walk away from you.
And hear me when I tell you this! When people can walk away from you, let them walk. I don't want you to try to talk another person into staying with you, loving you, calling you, caring about you, coming to see you, staying attached to you. I mean hang up the phone.
When people can walk away from you, let them walk. Your destiny is never tied to anybody that left.
The Bible said that, "They came out from us that it might be made manifest that they were not for us. For had they been of us, no doubt they would have continued with us." [1 John 2:19]
People leave you because they are not joined to you. And if they are not joined to you, you can't make them stay.
Let them go.
And it doesn't mean that they are a bad person. It just means that their part in the story is over. And you've got to know when people's part in your story is over so that you don't keep trying to raise the dead. You've got to know when it's dead.
You've got to know when it's over. Let me tell you something. I've got the gift of good-bye. It's the tenth spiritual gift. I believe in good-bye. It's not that I'm hateful, it's that I'm faithful, and I know whatever God means for me to have, He'll give it to me. And if it takes too much sweat, I don't need it. Stop begging people to stay.
Let them go!!
If you are holding onto something that doesn't belong to you and was never intended for your life, then you need to......
LET IT GO!!!
If you are holding on to past hurts and pains......
LET IT GO!!!
If someone can't treat you right, love you back, and see your worth......
LET IT GO!!!
If someone has angered you......
LET IT GO!!!
If you are holding on to some thoughts of evil and revenge......
LET IT GO!!!
If you are involved in a wrong relationship or addiction......
LET IT GO!!!
If you are holding on to a job that no longer meets your needs or talents......
LET IT GO!!!
If you have a bad attitude......
LET IT GO!!!
If you keep judging others to make yourself feel better......
LET IT GO!!!
If you're stuck in the past and God is trying to take you to a new level in Him......
LET IT GO!!!
If you are struggling with the healing of a broken relationship......
LET IT GO!!!
If you keep trying to help someone who won't even try to help themselves......
LET IT GO!!!
If you're feeling depressed and stressed......
LET IT GO!!!
If there is a particular situation that you are so used to handling yourself and God is saying "take your hands off of it," then you need to......
LET IT GO!!!
Let the past be the past. Forget the former things. GOD is doing a new thing for 2007!!!
LET IT GO!!!
Get right or get left... Think about it, and then...
LET IT GO!!!
"The Battle is the Lord's!
Hi all, just experimenting with a Beta Version of Blogger. There are some things we would like to see on the blog (like truncated posts, and a list of recent comments). So we will see what we can do to make this work better.
FYI, since no one has submitted new posts (hint hint) people are going back and commenting on older threads, so don't forget to look back. There have been some great comments, that would be a shame to be missed.
Thanks, DPR!!!
Preface:
ALLL-right. I am going to write this blog... know that I write out of love. Wholly out of love. Keep in mind that this earth is temporal, and I just long for Heaven. Heaven on earth is not achievable, but we are called to work for it anyhow.
Also, I'm sorry, but I am ADD. Or maybe that's just my excuse for my extreme fondness for parenthetical self-interruptions. I do not call them digressions, for I find that in my musings they add a depth... it's like breaking down an essay into an outline. You get many levels of specification. Or application. So, I apologize. I'll restrain myself as much as possible, and when it proves impossible, I will do my best to avoid confusing you. And when that proves impossible, then add a comment to this blog telling me that I failed utterly. I would be thoroughly amused. :) It wouldn't offend me since ultimately I am writing for myself.... stop. Now THAT was the beginnings of a digression.
Prologue:
My heart is sortof breaking right now... though, it's hard to break what's already broken. Hm.
We people are so cruel. We human beings... why do we hurt one another?
Note: I am not from Mars or anything. I am a human being, and thus wholly include myself in all allegations against humankind.
For several years now, one of the things that has weighed heaviest on my heart is the severe disunity of the Church. Gah! I fell into the trap of generalizations... calling Christians as a whole "the Church" is like calling the United States as a whole, all its government(s) and people(s) "the State." As with all generalizations, judgements passed often do not apply on a narrower, more specified level.
Huh. I've already had three disclaimers, and I haven't even gotten close to the point. I'll just plow ahead, then.
Severe disunity. It's like a human body, the Church. Or the church... either way. God shows us so much through how he has ordered nature. Single-celled organisms... very little. They exist of themselves. They, like every other living thing, cannot claim full independence. Everything needs its environment to live. A little bacteria in a human body, though it's its own self, needs the human body to live and function just like the human body needs the oxygen in the atmosphere and the water and a number of other external things in its environment to survive. Hmmm... A proton needs an electron and neutron to serve its purpose. An atom needs other atoms in order to fulfill its potential... to "live," per se. A molecule needs other molecules... An organ needs the other organs to function and to make a functional cell... A cell needs more cells to make an organ (bigger organ, this time), and that organ needs other organs to make a body. A body needs an earth. Earth has its incredibly specific needs in order to function ("live") as Earth. {Sidenote: It wouldn't seem that way, since the Earth just sortof is suspended in nothing. I would have written that Earth is merely maintained by God... but our planet is not the end-all. It keeps getting bigger and bigger... the solar system, the galaxy, the cluster, the universe... though ultimately "through Him all things live and move and have their being." And as far as being suspended, lonely, in space—well, don't we all feel that way? And how do you think that little bacteria floating around in you feels? Well... if it felt.} Anyway, you get my drift.
So what would happen if the electron rebelled against the atom as a whole? What happens when an indwelling bacteria attacks its host? If a liver rejected its intended function? ... Eventually the smaller unit, as well as the larger, will die. Or change.
{Oh dear. I see the need for parentheses. I have to here state that I believe in civil disobedience. I believe in giving to Caesar that which he claims, and to God all that He requires. I believe there is Truth... human authority is not the ultimate authority. That said...}
I sense not only a disunity among individuals or individual ministries in the individual church, but a severe disunity in the Church—all churches who preach and claim to believe in Jesus and the Christ, Son of the Living God, who gave himself up as a sacrifice for our sins. The spotless Passover Lamb.
We're people… yes. Sinners… O yes, yes. I know. There's that saying, "If you are looking for the perfect church, just know that when you find it once you step inside it it will no longer be perfect." Where there are fallible people, there will be strife and some amount of pain on some level.
But that's not God's will. And God is the only true Unifier out there, for only he really Loves… and only he can change the heart of man. And it is God's will that we serve Him above all else, and love eachother right under that. It is His will that we undergo a transformation of the mind. It is His will that we be one with Him, and of one mind with one another. That's His will... Like I said, however: Heaven on earth... sinfilled, fallen earth...
Body:
Moscow-Pullman and the surrounding townlets (yep, baby towns) have almost innumerable churches. All this writing is about one in particular, and how it lead me to all these thoughts. This church's name is Living Faith Fellowship.
I have known many absolutely wonderful people in my time spent in Moscow who go to or have gone to LFF. When I first came to Moscow, I had been warned by a friend who was up here a year before me not to attend there. It wasn't something I really thought about. God pretty quickly directed me to and plunked me solidly down into the Crossing. Plus, as a Freshman who knew no one, Pullman seemed far away and finding rides didn't sound like fun.
It's a large church, LFF. The bigger the church, the more fallible people in one place. I was not perturbed by anything I ever heard about the church. Flying opinions don't find they're mark in me, sinking in and becoming my own. I will be the first to admit that I know very little about the church.
Today, however, I got onto a blog on blogspot… truthaboutlivingfaith.blogspot, if you want to look it up.
Basically, for those of you who don't, it's a blog begun by people who have suffered at the hands of other people and have left the church. I had, as I mentioned, heard things about the church. Reading people's writing about it has a very different effect.
The reason this brought up the old weight on my heart is that, though I know the pain they are feeling is as valid as any feeling, it appears that the blog has no purpose other than to mull over, dwell on, fester with that pain. I read many different entrants' opinions and inputs. There are varying opinions. Some were from people still in the church, gently or not-so-gently defending what they know and love. Most are from people outside of the church. Some bitter, enraged, blatantly admitting an inability to forgive, and some gentle, more reasonable, less apt to throw into their comments phrases like "horrible people," though no less full of pain.
The blog's proclaimed purpose is thus: "We are an unlikely group of former members of Living Faith Fellowship recounting our experiences, pains and victories. Some left on good terms but still deal with the pain. Others left regretfully with tears of frustration hot on their faces and still deal with the pain. This blog is meant to shield others from the heartache, help in healing the countless wounded and perhaps provide a roadmap out for people who are still abused and hurting." Yet, in reading, there is a mass disregard for the "help with healing." There are many many recountings of personal experiences, and angry retorts, and high-emotion opinions. There is no one exhorting anyone to "love one another" and "love your enemy." There is little living out of "love is patient, kind—not jealous, bragging or arrogant, not acting unbecomingly nor seeking its own, not provoked, not taking into account wrong suffered…" and especially "not rejoicing in unrighteousness, but rejoicing in truth…"
It is obvious that these people have been hurt. I do not deny that. We cannot control what is done to us, only our response.
This blog is running wild. More people are being hurt by nursing their own pain… and the rift between those who have left and those who stayed is widening. We should want to strive for reconciliation! Not disunity!
I am not perfect.
I am fully aware that any judgement I pass,
I am passing upon myself.
We need to be founded on the Word of God. Don't dish out what's been dished to you! Work to restore one another, not enable one another to take into account wrongs suffered, acting unbecomingly in doing so. Such proclamations of the sins of others, even unnamed in the comments, is a sort of rejoicing in their unrighteousness! And in allowing this to continue on the blog, wallowing together in the muck of pain and bitterness, is a rejoicing in their own unrighteousness.
The blog could have been established as a shining spiritual victory over death and pain. As it is, it may take years to undo the further damage done. The blog could have been as Jesus turning the other cheek, the Amish families' forgiveness or their daughters' murders… as returning good with evil, "setting hot coals on their heads" (for, from the hurting's perspective, the church and those in it are the "enemy" to love… again, generalizing… take with grain of salt).
I am not absolving the church for whatever may or may have happened to create this response…
I am not absolving those who left for this response just because they are in pain.
--> --> --> --> --> --> --> --> --> --> --> -->
I am not writing to pass judgement on anyone.
I am writing to pass judgement on everyone. Especially upon myself.
Reading this blog stabbed me. Not just with pain for the people hurting. Not just with pain for the church… or the Church, universal. It stabbed me with conviction. Personal and deep.
I am the pain-giver so often talked about in that blog.
I am the pain-dweller, who sits and rails.
I give in to my emotions and let sin run rampant, abounding with justifications.
I am both.
I am all.
I am a sinful human being.
But, coming back out of myself, I can shout out:
Awake! Awake, O Zion!
Clothe yourself in your strength! Christ, who is your strength!
Clothe yourself in beautiful garments! Christ, who is your righteousness!
O Jerusalem, the holy city;
o="" church="" the="" redeemed="" and="" blessed="" of="" god="">
Shake yourself from the dust, rise up,
O captives,
Loose yourself from the chains about your neck,
O captive Zion!
Awake! Arise! And Love!
Live, Love! And be FREE!>
--> --> --> --> --> --> --> --> --> --> --> -->
We do not fight against flesh and blood, but against the forces of darkness...
Stand firm. Cling to the Hope that you say you have, for He is faithful to keep His promises. He will go before you.
O death where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?
To the Dread Pirate Roberts,
I find it ironic that you took the Dread Pirate Roberts as your name as I left LFF at the time Princess Bride was still in the theaters. I left some close friends in Pullman one in particular was Lanni Mackenzie we both went to WSU in ’83. Lanni and I belonged to and worked for the same church in Tacoma in the early 80s. I am just wondering if you could perhaps tell me if you know her and if you could get in touch with her and give her my contact information.
I would appreciate any information.
Thank you,
Gail Ryder
Email: gryder@riadastaffing.com
Note: posted with permission, DPR!!!
To the Dread Pirate Roberts,
I find it ironic that you took the Dread Pirate Roberts as your name as I left LFF at the time Princess Bride was still in the theaters. I left some close friends in Pullman one in particular was Lanni Mackenzie we both went to WSU in ’83. Lanni and I belonged to and worked for the same church in Tacoma in the early 80s. I am just wondering if you could perhaps tell me if you know her and if you could get in touch with her and give her my contact information.
I would appreciate any information.
Thank you,
Gail Ryder
Email: gryder@riadastaffing.com
Note: posted with permission, DPR!!!
Hi. I came across your blog some time ago and have found it interesting. I haven't read everything, but I've read a lot.
I did want to add a comment to the blog. Actually, I'm hesitant about posting this, but I haven't noticed anyone else mentioning this.
Many people were very involved at LFF, sometimes putting 20 or even more hours per week into service there. Many of those people were students at WSU or U. of I. I remember pastors claiming that the amount of time people were putting in at LFF did not take away from their studies, and I remember Pastor Karl or Pastor Sherri giving an example of a girl who was failing most of her classes, but after she was helped at LFF, her gpa rose to a 3.8. They never named the girl, and I personally didn't know anyone there for whom that was the case.
I've wondered how many people did sacrifice study time and perhaps had lower grades as a result of getting too involved at LFF? Was that the case for anyone? I know of at least a couple of people who came to WSU with high hopes of, after getting their bachelor's degree, going on to medical school or to grad school to work towards a Ph.D. They got involved at LFF and before too long abandoned those dreams and settled for just the bachelor's degree.
These days getting graduate degrees is no longer just for people who are brilliant or rich. Many fairly average people pursue advanced degrees. A lot of grad programs offer assistantships to a good number of students they admit, and these assistantships usually cover tuition as well as providing a stipend (which would take care of the cost of grad school).
It seemed not very many people at LFF went on to grad school, at least compared to other WSU and U. of I. students. I know, there were many exceptions, and I could name some myself. But most LFFers I met considered their education complete after finishing their bachelor's degree and also taking classes offered at LFF as part of the bible college. I know Pastors Karl and Sherri got advanced degrees, and some of the other pastors there got master's degrees bestowed on them by LFFMTC. (I was there until right before the senior Bardens left when there were still several sets of pastors.) But were people who came there as college students not encouraged to pursue further education? What was the deal with that? I realize I don't have all of the information concerning that, but I did wonder what the truth about that was.
A story about Living Faith Fellowship:
"The Two Swindlers" -played by Pride and Conceit
"The Emperor" -played by LFF Senior Pastors
"The Old Minister"-played by the Hearts of the Believers
"The Officials" -played by LFF Ministries
"The Cavaliers" -played by LFF Associate Pastors
"The Chamberlains" -played by Personal Ushers
"All The People In The Street" -played by All of Us
"The Small Child" -played by the Holy Spirit
"The Father" -played by The Father
Only one comment:
Look at what the Emperor does after the truth is told.
The Emperor's New Clothes
Source: Hans Christian Andersen
Many years ago there lived an emperor who loved beautiful new clothes so much that he spent all his money on being finely dressed. His only interest was in going to the theater or in riding about in his carriage where he could show off his new clothes. He had a different costume for every hour of the day. Indeed, where it was said of other kings that they were at court, it could only be said of him that he was in his dressing room!
One day two swindlers came to the emperor's city. They said that they were weavers, claiming that they knew how to make the finest cloth imaginable. Not only were the colors and the patterns extraordinarily beautiful, but in addition, this material had the amazing property that it was to be invisible to anyone who was incompetent or stupid.
"It would be wonderful to have clothes made from that cloth," thought the emperor. "Then I would know which of my men are unfit for their positions, and I'd also be able to tell clever people from stupid ones." So he immediately gave the two swindlers a great sum of money to weave their cloth for him.
They set up their looms and pretended to go to work, although there was nothing at all on the looms. They asked for the finest silk and the purest gold, all of which they hid away, continuing to work on the empty looms, often late into the night.
"I would really like to know how they are coming with the cloth!" thought the emperor, but he was a bit uneasy when he recalled that anyone who was unfit for his position or stupid would not be able to see the material. Of course, he himself had nothing to fear, but still he decided to send someone else to see how the work was progressing.
"I'll send my honest old minister to the weavers," thought the emperor. He's the best one to see how the material is coming. He is very sensible, and no one is more worthy of his position than he.
So the good old minister went into the hall where the two swindlers sat working at their empty looms. "Goodness!" thought the old minister, opening his eyes wide. "I cannot see a thing!" But he did not say so.
The two swindlers invited him to step closer, asking him if it wasn't a beautiful design and if the colors weren't magnificent. They pointed to the empty loom, and the poor old minister opened his eyes wider and wider. He still could see nothing, for nothing was there. "Gracious" he thought. "Is it possible that I am stupid? I have never thought so. Am I unfit for my position? No one must know this. No, it will never do for me to say that I was unable to see the material."
"You aren't saying anything!" said one of the weavers.
"Oh, it is magnificent! The very best!" said the old minister, peering through his glasses. "This pattern and these colors! Yes, I'll tell the emperor that I am very satisfied with it!"
"That makes us happy!" said the two weavers, and they called the colors and the unusual pattern by name. The old minister listened closely so that he would be able say the same things when he reported back to the emperor, and that is exactly what he did.
The swindlers now asked for more money, more silk, and more gold, all of which they hid away. Then they continued to weave away as before on the empty looms.
The emperor sent other officials as well to observe the weavers' progress. They too were startled when they saw nothing, and they too reported back to him how wonderful the material was, advising him to have it made into clothes that he could wear in a grand procession. The entire city was alive in praise of the cloth. "Magnifique! Nysseligt! Excellent!" they said, in all languages. The emperor awarded the swindlers with medals of honor, bestowing on each of them the title Lord Weaver.
The swindlers stayed up the entire night before the procession was to take place, burning more than sixteen candles. Everyone could see that they were in a great rush to finish the emperor's new clothes. They pretended to take the material from the looms. They cut in the air with large scissors. They sewed with needles but without any thread. Finally they announced, "Behold! The clothes are finished!"
The emperor came to them with his most distinguished cavaliers. The two swindlers raised their arms as though they were holding something and said, "Just look at these trousers! Here is the jacket! This is the cloak!" and so forth. "They are as light as spider webs! You might think that you didn't have a thing on, but that is the good thing about them."
"Yes," said the cavaliers, but they couldn't see a thing, for nothing was there.
"Would his imperial majesty, if it please his grace, kindly remove his clothes." said the swindlers. "Then we will fit you with the new ones, here in front of the large mirror."
The emperor took off all his clothes, and the swindlers pretended to dress him, piece by piece, with the new ones that were to be fitted. They took hold of his waist and pretended to tie something about him. It was the train. Then the emperor turned and looked into the mirror.
"Goodness, they suit you well! What a wonderful fit!" they all said. "What a pattern! What colors! Such luxurious clothes!"
"The canopy to be carried above your majesty awaits outside," said the grandmaster of ceremonies.
"Yes, I am ready!" said the emperor. "Don't they fit well?" He turned once again toward the mirror, because it had to appear as though he were admiring himself in all his glory.
The chamberlains who were to carry the train held their hands just above the floor as if they were picking up the train. As they walked they pretended to hold the train high, for they could not let anyone notice that they could see nothing.
The emperor walked beneath the beautiful canopy in the procession, and all the people in the street and in their windows said, "Goodness, the emperor's new clothes are incomparable! What a beautiful train on his jacket. What a perfect fit!" No one wanted it to be noticed that he could see nothing, for then it would be said that he was unfit for his position or that he was stupid. None of the emperor's clothes had ever before received such praise.
"But he doesn't have anything on!" said a small child.
"Good Lord, let us hear the voice of an innocent child!" said the father, and whispered to another what the child had said.
"A small child said that he doesn't have anything on!"
Finally everyone was saying, "He doesn't have anything on!"
The emperor shuddered, for he knew that they were right, but he thought, "The procession must go on!" He carried himself even more proudly, and the chamberlains walked along behind carrying the train that wasn't there.
Note, posted with permission, DPR!!!
You know I actually have turned LFF into some of the major News Stations of
TV asking them to run stories on churches like this. I don't know if
anything will evolve out of this but it would open many peoples eyes to what
is happening. It truly is like a cult which is something I was warned about
when I first moved to Pullman. God will blow this whole thing wide open and
when he does it's gonna be ugly for a lot of people. I can't say that I
feel sorry for any of them because I truly don't. I've had a hard time
forgiving what has happened to me. I was suicidal for a short while and had
to go on medication for it. I have since then bounced back and am moving
forward in freedom but not without many difficulties in forgiveness. I know
many people are mad at God for all that has happened but God is not people.
I have faced many hardships in the past 2 years. My younger brother passed
away in a tragedy and he was 22 years old. My husbands Grandpa passed away
just a few days ago and his grandparents raised him so it was like his dad
passing away. It has been a nightmare to say the least but God is God and
always was and really pulled myself and family through. The things at LFF
seem so small compared to this and I found that I was very selfish and
holding on to things that I should let go. Those people don't care about
you and they never will and when you hold a grudge or bitterness or hate you
are not hurting them at all cause they are horrible people, you only wasting
your time and life keeping those weights on your shoulders. I know this
truly is not what you want to hear and I wouldn't have wanted to hear it at
all 4 years ago either and would have been angry at someone who tried to
tell me these things but those things will eat you up and you will spend the
rest of your life living your life as a victim and never a victor. If that
is one thing my brothers death proved was life is short and you never know
when you are going. God could close his hand on your life today. Don't let
those people continue to run your lives and how you function in everyday
life 1,2 or even 10 years later. I let them run my life for 3 years after I
left. That to me now looking back was 3 years too long. Don't let them
have the satisfaction. They are just stupid sheep being led to the
slaughter. Walk in the freedom of who you are and who God has created you
to be. Your personality does not need to be harnessed, you don't need to
work on your servants heart, you don't need to focus on God more and quit
your job or school so that you can be more involved in church. You can do
whatever you want. BUT!!! do it for yourself!!! DON"T LET THEM WIN!!!
~ If you want to contact me you can at Ra14589@gohighspeed.com. Otherwise
have a great day just doing whatever!!! :)
Craig Elliott
Eric,
I am grieving over some of your comments. I know you and Sarah and I know you both are some of the kindest people I have ever met. I also know the level of involvment you had.
Eric, I was much more involved. Got to the CCL level and also spent many hours personally with Vances, Bardens, etc, in their home, with them on vacations, etc.
I guess the thing that grieves me the most is after you left the things I witnessed and the depth of feeling I had for LFF. I knew God wanted to make some changes but LFF leadership refused to make them. I can tell you that numerous pastors in that church and other leadership tried their best to make those changes happen.
Eric, I grieve at times, at times I am angry, at times I am appalled at what I witnessed and the things I saw others go through. It wasn't what I thought it was at all when it came to certain leadership and how they treated those under them. Yes, there were some good ones but the bad ones who say they love but never truly act on it are still there.
I have numerous friends who suffered the worst who don't even participate in this blog.
All I ask is that you not judge those who write here. As a former leader I witnessed so many of the things people are sharing on here. I wish they weren't true, I cried my guts out when I left because there were times I loved so deeply everyone there.
The church you left was not the church it became, if that makes sense. There are still people I care about there but most of them have moved on. And by that I mean several hundred.
I am blessed at your generous heart. You actually took the bible principles and live them. You would be shocked at how much a church leadership could preach that kindness/generosity and yet live as far from it as possible. Please keep showing Jesus like you do, and pray healing for those of us who are somewhat shaken to the core from what has happened to us and those we love.
--
Note: this was posted under My Truth About Living Faith, but thought it would be good to highlight. DPR!!!
To the person who felt ostracized by the leadership at LFF for prematerial sex I am very sorry what happened to you took place. You confessed your sins to your oversight and in turn they talked with thier oversight and it should have stayed there and not have been spread among your peers. Everyone involved in that leadership chain should be ashamed because they knew what type of personal damage that info could cause.
I dont know you or who your HCL was at the time but I am sure they were not out to destroy you but it seems no sensitivity was given to your situation. Asking you to step down from JCD's is very delicate because if your time as a JCD was like mine, we were all friends. It would be normal for the other JCD's to wonder what happened, ask questions and speculate.
If I had a say in your situation which did not because I was not there I would have brought you in closer after you confessed as you probably had many mixed feelings that good mentoring could have helped. Repentance or true repentance I have discovered is not a quick confession, all is forgiven let just forget about it. For myself I have seen it takes time. I can stop the behavior but the desire to continue is still there and if not ministered, mentored or whatever else you want to call it, that desire festers and the behavior begins again.
To me your confession was not only a cry for forgiveness but also help and it seems that more focus was placed on your sin than your continued walk with Christ. The fact you confessed shows you felt what you did was sin but the outcome that took place was so much different that what could have took place.
God does not hate you and he forgave your sin before it took place. People on the other hand are jus that, people. Like I said if it was up to me the focus after confession should be placed on your continued relationship with Jesus to bring you closer where you could have grown from the experience.
I feel for you because like you I had many close friends at LFF and I am sure many are still there. The difference is I live in another city as an exLFFer and dont see any current church members who may or may not be whispering behind my back or yours. When I was there we had a HCL who left the church but still lived in Pullman and I remember at a members meeting being told why he had to leave, what he did etc and to keep my distance. When I saw him at Fantastic Sams to get a hair cut I had to speak to him to see how he was. I remember I told my HCL about talking with the exLFFer and they were concerned that I was ok and I thought it very strange. It was like he was a disease that would spread on me if I talked with him, nonsense.
I too find myself from time to time longing for the good old days with all my old friends but those days are gone. I refuse to beleive that my best days where over 10 years ago as life is what you make of it and it can and will get better or not.
It is nice to belong to something that we see as bigger than ourselves as it can give us purpose and drive. In the end a church is an organization with thier own rules and regulations that are not always fairley administered.
The God I know is not waiting to punish me or you with a big bat. Leaving LFF is not a sin but a choice. To stay at LFF and be a part of LFF is a choice to live life the LFF way. I just could not do that. We were taught the wheel theory if you remember how we are at the center and each spoke was a part of our life and how God should be at the center and each spoke a reflection of him. How easy it is to put LFF at the center and have it involved in every part of our life. It took me a while to believe it but people that go to other churches are saved and living a very happy life with God.
You had prematerial sex and confessed your sin. Dont confuse Gods forgiveness with mans acceptence. The prematerial thing may have excluded you from inner working of LFF and being a JCD but it never took you away from recieving Gods love and forgiveness.
Do whatever you have to do to get closer to GOD. It sound to me that your anger at LFF is preventing you from doing that. Right or wrong anger is anger and will eat you up in the end. I have seen happen more times than I care to have seen. If you are wary about new churches and talking with a Pastor about what has happened to you maybe a secular counselor can help. They wont judge you and will see things from a much different point of view.
LFF is just a church that consumed many of our lives. Take responsibility for what you did, no more no less, and get help to let the rest go
Editor's note: this was posted way down the blog, we wanted to make sure everyone had a chance to read it.
DPR!!!
I know that this blog is about LFF and those of us who left it. Sorry if this seems a little off topic. But, when I went to LFF I was a very liberal democrat (Jerry Brown Democrat) but I was convinced that I was in error (the unwritten truth was "you couldn't be a Christian and be a Democrat".) Well,(17 years later) I wrote in my notebook and asked Jesus if he would have been a Republican. Guess what, I got a resounding NO! But, he wouldn't have been a democrat or any other party.
I am embarassed to say that I went to the State Republican Convention as a Pat Robertson delegate. (That really opens up conversations!) What were we thinking. The man is totally crazy! But I lay it down to the Cultural Hegemony of our little LFF (and evangelical Christian) world view.
I have just read an article my pastor sent to me about what our president is planning for Iran, I just can't stand still! I have to do what I can to end this insanity! I am going to join protests on October 5th to call for a regime change. This war on Terror is an unwinnable war. The war on Iraq was a total failure, and in my opinion, moved by the pride of a man who thought he heard from God. I believe we need to pray for Bush. We need to pray that God would soften his heart and help him to see the folly of continuing in the way that he is.
I also hope that some of you can find it in your heart to spread the word about the protests. I hope that all of us can look in the mirror and not feel ashamed. Yes, I am a child of the 60's. But that doesn't negate the truth of pacifism. Our nation was mostly pacifist until World War II! It is not focusing on the differences between all people that will bring us together. It is seeing that we really are all one. God's love is big enough to turn this world around. But it will take us to get invovled to make it happen!
May it happen in our lifetime!
with love and peace to you all,
John Brower
congueroseattle@hotmail.com
(BTW, conguero is spanish for conga player, but maybe against the war is good too!)
Editor's note: posted with permission
This is making me mad. Everyone needs to go read the statement about the purpose of this blog. It is for those who were deeply affected by LFF, most in a not so positive way. It absolutely is not for those of you who try to belittle us and our very real pains and scars. We have never needed to, nor will we continue to try and justify or explain our very real turmoil and pain to you. If you are content with LFF now or your experiance, then please shut up. For some of us, this is our only way of dealing with the pain that happened. We left your church and all it contains. We do not need you to follow us and insult or harrass us any longer. Let us try to deal with our lives as best we are able. And if someone feels the need to say that expressing my story was me being a "whiner" or a "weiner" then have the stones to tell me to my face. If you dare, you can ask me for my contact info.
Gene Spaulding
Spiritual abuse is a real phenomena. I've listed the 5 Common Characteristics below.
Please see this link for more information: http://www.watchman.org/profile/abusepro.htm
Spiritual Abuse
by David Henke
Founding Date: Spiritual abuse is as old as false religion itself. While the practice is old, the term "spiritual abuse" may have been coined first by Jeff VanVonderen.
Organizational Structure: Can occur under virtually any organizational structure, but "top down" hierarchical structures are especially well suited to systemic spiritual abuse.
DEFINED
Spiritual abuse is the misuse of a position of power, leadership, or influence to further the selfish interests of someone other than the individual who needs help. Sometimes abuse arises out of a doctrinal position. At other times it occurs because of legitimate personal needs of a leader that are being met by illegitimate means. Spiritually abusive religious systems are sometimes described as legalistic, mind controlling, religiously addictive, and authoritarian.
COMMON CHARACTERISTICS
#1) Authoritarian
The most distinctive characteristic of a spiritually abusive religious system, or leader, is the over-emphasis on authority. Because a group claims to have been established by God Himself the leaders in this system claim the right to command their followers.
This authority supposedly comes from the position they occupy. In Matthew 23:1-2 Jesus said the Scribes and Pharisees "sit in Moses' seat," a position of spiritual authority. Many names are used but in the abusive system this is a position of power, not moral authority. The assumption is that God operates among His people through a hierarchy, or "chain of command." In this abusive system unconditional submission is often called a "covering," or "umbrella of protection" which will provide some spiritual blessing to those who fully submit. Followers may be told that God will bless their submission even if the leadship is wrong. It is not their place to judge or correct the leadership - God will see to that.
#2) Image Conscious
The abusive religious system is scrupulous to maintain an image of righteousness. The organization's history is often misrepresented in the effort to demonstrate the organization's special relationship to God. The mistaken judgements and character flaws of its leaders are denied or covered up in order to validate their authority. Impossibly high legalistic standards of thought and behavior may be imposed on the members. Their failure to live up to these standards is a constant reminder of the follower's inferiority to his leaders, and the necessity of submission to them. Abusive religion is, at heart, legalism.
Abusive religion is also paranoid. Because the truth about the abusive religious system would be quickly rejected if recognized, outsiders are shown only a positive image of the group. This is rationalized by assuming that the religion would not be understood by "worldly" people; therefore they have no right to know. This attitude leads to members being secretive about some doctrines and the inner policies and proceedures of the group. Leaders, especially, will keep secrets from their members. This secrecy is rooted in a basic distrust of others because the belief system is false and can not stand scrutiny.
#3) Suppresses Criticism
Because the religious system is not based on the truth it cannot allow questions, dissent, or open discussions about issues. The person who dissents becomes the problem rather than the issue he raised. The truth about any issue is settled and handed down from the top of the hierarchy. Questioning anything is considered a challenge to authority. Thinking for oneself is suppressed by pointing out that it leads to doubts. This is portrayed as unbelief in God and His anointed leaders. Thus the follower controls his own thoughts by fear of doubting God.
#4) Perfectionistic
A most natural assumption is that a person does not get something for nothing. Apart from the express declarations of salvation by grace through faith God has given in the scriptures, it would be natural to think that one must earn salvation, or at least work to keep it. Thus, in abusive religions all blessings come through performance of spiritual requirements. Failure is strongly condemned so there is only one alternative, perfection. So long as he thinks he is succeeding in his observation of the rules, the follower typically exhibits pride, elitism, and arrogance. However, when reality and failure eventually set in, the result is the person experiences spiritual burnout, or even shipwreck of his faith. Those who fail in their efforts are labeled as apostates, weak, or some other such term so that they can be discarded by the system.
#5) Unbalanced
Abusive religions must distinguish themselves from all other religions so they can claim to be distinctive and therefore special to God. This is usually done by majoring on minor issues such as prophecy, carrying biblical law to extremes, or using strange methods of biblical interpretation. The imbalanced spiritual hobby-horse thus produced represents unique knowledge or practices which seem to validate the group's claim to special status with God.
Well hello there! I stumbled across your blog a several months ago and found myself very disturbed by what I was reading. As an ex-LFF'er myself, I left LFF with a very different perspective than the tone of your blog. I wrote out the following, but never sent it. Anyway, after much ruminations, I thought I would pass it along to you and see what you think. I don't think it's ready for your blog's audience, but I'm curious if you get similar e-mails? Anyway, here goes…
I ran into Liz Keefer at NW College, where my wife is a professor and had spoken in Chapel to the 700+ students and faculty that attend. In fact, what I wanted to communicate is discussed in the message my wife spoke. You can listen to it here - http://eagle.northwestu.edu/chapel_mp3/20060130.mp3. Anyway, it was a joy to run into Liz (as I find it is when I run into anybody from my time at LFF). We had a good little talk about LFF and she turned me on to this blog. I was, of course, curious about it as I have mostly positive memories of LFF. I haven't read all of it but what I have read kind of makes me seethe a little bit - mostly about the posts that people are putting up. I sure am sorry that so many people feel so hurt and abused by the leadership of the church. To be fair, though, speaking with Liz confirmed what I guessed at but had no way of knowing at the time, that the kids at LFF, who through no choice of their own, were subjected to a very harsh and strict environment. It doesn't take a PhD in psychology to know that not all children will thrive in that type of environment. I am grieved over the PCS kids that I knew from my time at LFF who now I hear have rejected the faith. I pray and petition God to help them and heal them and the rest of what I'm writing has nothing to do with them. So here it is - I really think that a good healthy dose of personal responsibility ought to go along with what most of the people posting to this sight have written. My goodness, we chose our path! We chose to put ourselves and keep ourselves there and perpetuated many of the attitudes and actions that seem to have hurt so many.
My story is simple enough. I got saved at Heartbeat Retreat - and I still PRAISE Jesus for that day and the incredible ministry team at LFF. I did the whole LFF thing for 4 years through JCD's, CAT, etc., etc. etc.. I declare I'm the Christian I am today because of the investment and love that leadership poured into me. The incredible marriage I enjoy is bedded in the principles we were taught in Mirror and Pre-marriage counseling. To this day, I continue in the spiritual disciplines I learned at LFF. I thank God that Pastor Sherri poured into me the vitalness of intimacy with Jesus. To this day I read my bible through every year. I still journal and I hear the voice of the Spirit speaking to me. The servants heart that was instilled in me has not died, but has developed and continues to bless my congregation that I'm in now. Oh, and that whole LFF tithing teaching…ya, I still do that to. Not all to 'the local storehouse' but I would be happy to tell you about the several world vision sponsor children we have, or the list of missionaries we personally support. And to remove any doubt that I've gone from LFF to some other form of LFF you can check out my churches web site at www.canyoncreekonline.com. Believe me, it's nothing like.
It's been over 10 years since I attended LFF, and I've been a committed, serving member of 3 other churches since then…I'm not 'brain washed'. I'm in love with Jesus! I guess I really believed that we can live a sold out Christian life. I knew that the leadership was keeping a file on me and all my juicy dirt, maybe you've read it? I don't really care! I knew what I was in and I knew what was going on…I think you'd have to have your eyes shut tight not to have seen that. Goodness.
Anyway, after graduation from WSU, I was moving on with my life and had a happy parting from the church. I think back to my life at LFF and compare that to what I'm reading on this blog, and my heart grieves for the people who weren't willing to make choices that would have made their time at LFF a better experience, and in fact a better church. I knew I was a little different from most of my peers, but reading this blog confirms that in my mind. I never quite totally 'fit the mold'.
1. I think that Sarah and I are the only couple that got married at LFF who
Wasn't 'arranged' by leadership (I actually met her and fell in love with her outside of LFF!)
2. Sarah was barely an LFF'er (does 9 months at the church count…I think not).
3. And (OMG) we had people in our wedding party who were not LFF'ers
4. I don't remember for sure - but I think we even got a certain wording in the standard LFF wedding liturgy changed to be more accommodating to our families.
I think our wedding really displays what I want to say. I read in this blog that many felt there was a serious problem with conformity and guilt and what not. Well, there was a great deal of conformity…but was it required? I always found that when I was real with my leadership they always came around and supported me in my godly choices. In fact, I never felt like I was expected to do any particular thing…encouraged, certainly, but never demanded. For example, I remember being new to things and wanting my oversight to tell me what I should do…but I was always told to hear from God first and then let's talk. So that's what I did. Is this not a common experience? Yes, there was pressure to do certain things, but I never felt like I was black listed when I chose to pursue other routes…I don't know, maybe that's some new file system they've created - "THE BLACK SHEEP FILE"??? (I'm laughing out loud at my own sic joke). Anyway, I suppose most of us chose to cave into the pressure, rather than really live out who we are and to be truly open and honest. I love the many posts that have much to say about how, post LFF, they feel like they can really be who they are. It's funny…why couldn't they do that at LFF??? Ya, there was a lot of pressure to conform, I still remember being a little sad when I would see some of my friends cave in to the pressure and cut their long hair off if they were a guy or start wearing too much makeup if they were women. Maybe I never had to deal with the whole conformity thing too much since I already 'looked the part'. But certainly, my actions and my sin where known…yet I still never felt like I was on the outs with anybody. I just lived who I was and was truthful and real with my oversight. I mean check this out…I was 'Confirmed?' in CAT 4 at the end of the year a few weeks before I left…with the leaderships full knowledge I was leaving the church. I say this only to reinforce my feeling that even when they knew I was leaving, I was not snubbed but rather 'blessed' by confirmation. "
I think the reality of most of our lives is that WE are the idolaters. We worship the approval of men more than the approval of God. Talk about idols…isn't that what most of us were approaching…idolizing the Vances or the Bardens or the other Pastors? I really think that most of my peers were afraid to try and be who they really were for some fear of upsetting the pastors. That surely is a theme in the posts I've read here. And maybe they did get on some black list…so what! Jesus certainly was on the black list for his time. Big friggin deal…he still changed the world within the confines of his place. I could go on about the life of Paul the Apostle and John the Baptist and Elijah and Jeremiah and and and...
There was a reason I never became a full fledged member (well, and as a single guy, there was that other issue…you can read about it in my file). I was fully aware of the pressures that walked the halls of LFF when I went there…but I never felt like I wasn't loved for who I was or for not making that next step from provisional member to full member. Maybe I got lucky in my oversight. Truthfully, I will say there were those over me who I knew were just going through the motions of 'investing' in me - but I saw it for what it was and I only pressed into those who I found to be genuine. I don't know a church in the USA who doesn't have fakers in it. Those I really poured my heart out to were the ones who were real and I always felt a genuine return of love.
For all the talk about how the heart of what was taught being the most important thing at the church, I think that it is the heart of the teaching that has been lost on many of the stories I've read on this site. I used to think that if only the incredible love for Jesus that the people at LFF possessed, and their sincere desire to serve and minister to people could be infused into the thousands of other lack luster churches across our land…what a different church we would see today. When I started to hear of the families who were moving on and away from Pullman shortly after P. Phil took the helm, my heart rejoiced! I thought, now surely there will be some communities of faith who will be truly blessed to have former LFF members involved and serving in their communities - and I hope there are. How sad I am now to read and hear that among these families there have been divorces, people have fallen away from the faith and then this blog spot where everyone can dump their ill feelings for the whole world to read. I do think there is a process we all must go through after leaving LFF…it was, for good or ill, and incredible place and I think not to find it elsewhere. Because, from my experience at LFF, I still follow the heart of the teaching…if not all of the form of the teaching. I found Jesus as the bedrock of my life and the strength of my existence - and it is because of the incredible investment made by my home care leaders, by my pastors and by the many other people who encouraged me and blessed me along the way.
I just recently read a book by Erwin McMantus called "the Barbarian Way." This book speaks directly to what I am saying. Following Christ is about following Christ…not the limited menu options available by trying to please a few key people. And here maybe my whole argument breaks down, but I really believe that LFF is a place that people could follow Jesus in the specific calling and in all the uniqueness of who they are. You might say that certain choices would limit your ability to minister at LFF. Sure, if you didn't go to crew or whatever, you would be disqualified for formal ministry through the church…but why is it that we sought those positions and coveted them so? I used to think that the pinnacle of success in ministry would be being a Home Care Leader. But on reflection and after many years of following Jesus, I find that success in ministry is way broader than that. It is my experience and belief that LFF was a place where your ministry passions can be pursued…if we truly gave up trying to fit in or please people or climb some ladder of status. Well, there it is.
Last thoughts - Here are some random thoughts I've had in writing this letter (which has turned into a surprisingly long thing) that didn't seem to fit in anywhere else.
About anonymity - Some of my best friends are Pastors. My wife teaches at a Bible College. I think that pastors are taught in seminary 101 not to open or read anonymous letters. I think this whole anonymous business is rubbish, excepting when you have legitimate reasons to protect someone else. I think that it can do more harm than good. Yes people are more able to open up…but to what end? Are we really helping ourselves by telling everyone about our dirty laundry? What if I'm the perpetrator of the pain? How could I possibly know who this person is and seek reconciliation?
'truthaboutlivingfatih' - Hmmm...pretty punishing name. I suppose many feel they've earned right to use it - to do their own shake down on the church. It reminds me of the TV news story that broke when I was there…The Cult Church in Pullman. I personally liked the way they interviewed Pastor Karl - in the dark and asking menacing questions. Soooo, that was pretty obvious we hadn't had much media experience. Wowzers. I certainly had a very different and very positive experience, contrary to the majority of posts I've read on this site. Truth is a pretty brutal word that many on this site have accused the leadership of abusing. Might you also be doing the same? I certainly came away with a completely different 'truth about living faith'. Could I suggest an name change to 'LifeafterLFF' or something a little less gauntlet like????
My hope - My hope for everyone who has ever been a part of, is currently a part of, or ever will be associated with LFF is simply this: "Summing it all up, friends, I'd say you'll do best by filling your minds and meditating on things true, noble, reputable, authentic, compelling, gracious - the best, not the worst; the beautiful, not the ugly; things to praise, not things to curse." Phil. 4:8 I've found in my Christian walk that what matters most in how we live is loving God first, and then loving people - whether through pain and suffering or through joyous exultation. Dear friends, let us love one another. I suspect if my words are ever repeated to some, they will cause outrage and pain ("you're just blaming the victim!"). My intent is not blame, but to examine what drove us to be 'victims' as so many have accused. Then, at the end of the day, my desire would be healing and reconciliation. I cannot presume to see things from others perspective, but my heart goes out. I remain totally and eternally thankful for the love and rich investment made in my life by Pastor Karl, Pastor Sherri, Pastor Phil, Pastor Kerri and the host of other leadership who gave of themselves for me. Best regards,Eric L. Drivdahl
Fifteen years ago, I attended my Freshman year at the University of Idaho. My roommate in the dorms was my best friend since Junior High, Cindy. We both attended CCF and gradually became more involved in LFF. Two older college students and members of the church befriended us and were so welcoming and nice (I now realize they were likely assigned to us). Over the next two and a half years, we attended church there together sporadically.
Sometime during our third year at Moscow, I talked Cindy into joining Going for the Gold with me. It sounded innocent enough and I thought we'd enjoy doing it together. Well, when I found out that I'd be assigned someone who I'd be required to meet with one-on-one frequently, I was terrified. I backed out, but Cindy continued on with the process.
It didn't take long until she started changing in subtle ways, and drifted away from me and our other roommate. Unfortunately, she overheard me make a negative comment to our roommate about how rarely we saw her anymore and that our relationships seemed strained. Something to the effect of "Nice knowing ya, Cindy." It wasn't long after that that she moved out (in the middle of the semester). I really have never spoken with her since. I have sent her an occasional letter, or Christmas card and I get a polite, if brief, reply, or her Christmas form letter. Nothing more. I have missed her terribly over the past dozen years. I cannot believe it's been that long. I still choke up thinking about the loss.
Anyway, I found this blog recently, and it is very fascinating to me. I was never deeply involved with LFF, but over time realized there was something "off" about some of the things I saw. Especially after Cindy seemed to cut herself off from her friends and become so entrenched in LFF, I more and more recognized it as a cult of some sort.
When I visited their website, some time ago, Cindy was still a teacher at the LFF school. The other day, her name was no longer listed as a member of the faculty. In reading many of the posts on your Blogg, it sounds as if many people have left the church and I don't know how to find out what happened to her.
I just had to let out my feelings and was hoping to find out if she had moved on. I would love a response at lorettapox@hotmail.com
God bless you in your efforts to make a difference in the lives of those affected by this
organization.
(Editors Note, I got her permission to post her email)
A couple of days ago I disposed of my Cathechism II notebook from 1988. As a recent convert to Orthodox Christianity, (see www.oca.org) I had loaned my notebook to my Priest, so that he could evaluate the doctrine of baptism that I had been taught, to aid in deciding if I should be baptised yet again. Nearly a year had passed since I took it to him, and it was returned with the sweet fragrance of incense and beeswax that permeates all his books, many of which he had loaned me during my catechesis. I had forgotten all about the notebook, and suddenly, there it was. A millstone had returned, and what should I do with it?I didn't want to continue to store it. I don't need it for reference, or because I need to be able to spread "the truth according to Karl Barden". I didn't want to send it too the landfill, that offends my environmental sensibilities. The binder is still in good shape, it was the contents that needed to be dealt with.So, I got the shredder, put on some nice calming sacred music, and sorted out pages to recyle (the textpart), and pages to shred. I shredded all the personal details that I was compelled to share on paper, and all the red ink encouragements, and all the stickers, and all the S++'s. I wondered what my cat. counselors are doing now. Are they still there, theThompsons and the Waites? My ex and I were counselors as well, where are our "sheep" now? I can't even remember who they were, just that I was working hard to keep up with everything. We had two kids and one on the way, I was working part time and dealing with acomplicated pregnancy, house hunting and getting ready to move. So, I got to grade papers and think of something to say to each and every essay answer, and a few neat comments or cute pictures to make it interesting. After all, my work as a counselor was going to be evaluated, just like I was evaluating all those papers.
I felt the grief and sadness that comes over me when I contemplate how much a part of the LFF machine I was,how willing, how faithful and "solid", how neatly I bought into the party line, and spouted the scriptures and doctrines when our choices were questioned by caring family members. I grieve for the lives of those that I influenced to buy into the system.When we left in 1996, it was as members in good standing. It took years for me to see how wrongthings were.
As I began to understand the inherent abusiveness of LFF, I reflected on a hard lesson thatI had learned from parenting: "You can't give what you don't have." Or, in other words, no matter how balanced and pretty the teaching, if the teachers aren't living it, it is the reality that is passed on,not the doctrine. Our family had followed the example set before us, with disastrous results. (Of course,we might have had disastrous results anyway, IF we had met and married outside of LFF) We had learned that:
Helpmeet = Enabler
Leader = Dictator
Appearances = What matters
Mental or physical illness = Spiritual problem
Children with problems = Parental laziness
Divorce = Ultimate nightmare of shame and loneliness
These ideas had kept us together. Seeing how false these assumptions were, and not knowing how to handle it, helped to complete the demolition of a wobbling marriage.
Enough for now, Cathechism II has been dealt with in it's paper manifestation in my life. The past is past, and the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are at work in my life to transform me more and more into the image of Christ. I am in recovery from LFF, it hast aken time, and it will take time. My hope is in the Lord, not in a funny cult in Pullman.
Peace in Christ,Helen-Xenia
PS - Does anyone have any good ideas for disposing ofa size XL JCD support family T-shirt?
This Blog Is Having A Positive Impact. Has anyone noticed that the pictures and text related to the Karl and Sherri Barden have been removed from LFF's website? In fact, I did a quick check through the whole site and could find no mention of them and no links to the new "church" in Port Ludlow. A number of people have noted here that the Vances have been monitoring this blog. If you (Phil and Kari) -- or any other LFF leaders -- are reading this comment, I must commend you. You have taken a small but important step toward separating yourselves and your congregation from a very unhealthy past by removing the website material about the Bardens. I encourage you (the current LFF leadership) to take more courageous steps in the same direction: Dissolve the heirarchy that seeks to invade and control even the most intimate details of your attendees' lives. Trust that God will do the work of transformation in each precious individual that no human structure can ever hope to achieve. Open your leadership to true accountability by adopting a congregational structure in which the whole community of faith is made aware of all details of the operations and finances of Living Faith -- and can participate fully in the decision-making process at every level. Trust the wisdom of the Holy Spirit, as expressed in the gathering of believers, to move the congregation in directions that are truly God-honoring and faithful to the life and ministry of Jesus. Be courageous in persevering along this portion of the path -- even if it means that the ties of this congregation to the Barden/Vance family are ultimately called into question. There is a strong perception in the Pullman community and throughout the broader networks with which LFF is connected that LFF exists -- and has always existed -- largely to fund this particular family and its close associates. True congregational accountability may mean that you must be open to the possibility that a fresh start for LFF means doing everything possible to changing this perception -- including the departure of current leadership, or at the very least an opening of the books so that the congregation and the surrounding community can learn "where the money went" over the years. Do not be afraid. God will honor such courageous attempts at repentance.Loose yourselves from the questionable standard of tithing which causes the leadership and the congregation to appear to be (or to be) in the service of money rather than the service of the Kingdom. Trust God to provide the resources needed to achieve the Kingdom results that God seeks in your congregation and the Pullman area.End the enslavement of your people to a church schedule (Saturday work days, endless meetings of various types, etc.) that keeps them in bondage to self-doubt, insecurity and self-focus. Trust Jesus to be present in his people as they become salt and light in their everyday worlds. When their time is consumed by church events, pastoral control is at a maximum and the effective ministry of the people in their daily lives is at a minimum. Reach out to all of the people who have been truly hurt and abused by leadership practices over the years which produced the fruits of bitterness, shame and suffering. Love your flock enough -- both former and current attendees -- to humble yourselves and ask for their forgiveness. This blog contains ample material with which to start as to the types of behaviors for which forgiveness is needed. Involve the Bardens themselves in the task. At the very least, write a general letter from the Bardens, the Vances and other current paid staff to as many former attendees as you can possibly find. Tell them that you regret both the sins of commission and omission. Humble yourselves in this manner and God will lift you up. It is important for the healing of thousands of people whom you once professed to love. Do it for them. Do it for Christ. Do it for his Kingdom. Be strong and of good courage. You can do this. It will take time and perseverence, but you can move beyond a past that binds the congregation to a future of freedom as servants of God's Kingdom in Pullman and beyond. 8/18/2006 2:15 PM
This was sent to us via email. We thought that it might provide a good discussion. We had so much drilled into us about "not touching the Lord's Annointed" and having a "Critical Spirit" or a "Rebellious Spirit". If you read some of the other books (eg. Twisted Scriptures) you start to realize that these are key phrases used to control. Does God give us discerning of spirits? If so, how do we know when we are being discerning, or when we have a critical spirit?
DPR!!!
From "The New Mystics" by John Crowder:"It is important not to adopt a rebellious spirit, and to remember that our battle is not against flesh and blood. Yes religion is a foul thing. But 'religious' people are often just wounded Christians seeking identity and comfort in the wrong places. To criticize the old guard is often a sign that we are still operating out of rejection, and somehow needing their affirmation rather than the Lord's. Truly mature Christians, who have overcome insecurity, will see people beyond the veil of their religious bondage and empathize with the hurts that landed them there."
It is interesting that the web people at LFF decided to change the photo that we used as the avitar for Innocence Destroyed. It is a little remeniscent of how we felt about the plastic faces the greeeters put on to greet everyone at the door. Thank you for the laugh!
ARRGH!!! DPR Lives!!!
A hurt or a wrong was described to me by a Pastor using the story of the Pearl of Great price, he interpreted the story this way - A clam gets a piece of sand or some other irritant inside it's shell it has no way of getting rid of that piece of sand. Instead the clam produces a mucus that covers that piece of sand to make it slippery as time goes by the coatings of mucus keep covering the sharp edges of that irritant until eventually it is smooth and becomes a beautiful pearl. This process can take many years and the pearl never leaves the clam until we open it up. This is your hurt or irritant it will always be a part of you it could be physical or mental abuse or any other wrong done to you. Each time we feel that hurt we need to go to God and release it. As we do God's love comes and covers that hurt slowly lessing that pain over time. A life time of going to him for his grace, love and covering creates that beautiful Pearl of our life and when we reach that great gate that is what we will present to him. Our pearl, Our Life created by him to be beautiful even in our pain. Realize that he is there for you no matter what. You are his "Pearl of Great Price".
Hello -
I found your blog yesterday and spent a good portion of the day and evening reading it. I too was a victim of LFF. I was there from 1995 - 1997. The Worship Center was just being completed. I remember the first evening I arrived and how welcoming everyone was. I had just relocated to Pullman to work on some coursework prior to graduate school and I didn't know anyone. It was so very welcoming.
I have to say in some ways I lucked out and was not fully sucked into the the church because of my work schedule that included both Saturday and Sunday. When I first arrived I was put on the shepard path and into JCD and I was in a cool home fellowship group with Sally and Tim Mildren. While going through the GG class, I switched to a sheep type. I was changed into a non-cool group.
My friend that had introduced me to LFF had a falling out with Sherri and then more with everyone else after she met
I mostly wanted to say thank you for your site and your bravery and for being open and honest about LFF. And I will continue to hope that the friends I made there that were still their when I left have also "seen the light" and moved on. I think of them often.
OK, we went through all of the old mail and deleted it. We posted everything that looked like it hadn't been posted. If you wrote something that you really wanted on the blog, please send it to us again. We will be glad to post it. If you have been in touch with other people who may have stopped visiting the blog, let them know that it is active again.
Thanks and blessings! DPR! (arrgh!)
Misc. Musings -
As the Administrator points out - the previous and current leadership are following the same suit - no change, no responsibility. My theory on the whole thing is that they CAN'T change. What I mean is that to admit their fault or responsibility in any of these tragic stories, will mean that they are indeed guilty and their pride just could not handle the possibility they are guilty in all or even one.
No, what they would do is review every case, research it, find the details, investigate, interview, interpret and then look into the past of the "complainer" and find it was all a result of all of us "not taking responsibility for our own choices" or the "struggles we were having with sin" or "we were volitional" thus their responsibility is absolved...or another out is just shift the blame - it was their parent's fault, the sister's fault, etc. Therefore, no need to take responsibility - it wasn't their fault and even if they did do something that hurt someone - it was because we interpreted it wrongly, therefore absolving their guilt once again - it was us. They absolutely believe that system to the core and that's why they are clinging to it desperately. I don't ever expect a change, sadly.
In order to continue on, they simply can not face the reality or it would destroy the whole premise on which their fragile world is built. It's the age-old LFF cycle - any questions, any pain, any hurt means that there is something wrong with all of us and we should repent for feeling those things and then take responsibility that we chose to stay and be wounded.
It's a whole veil of deception that I believe they must continue to cling to in order to feel confident in what they are continuing to do. In fact, I would venture to guess that because of the length and strength of this belief on their part, that they don't really know what reality is anymore. What they believe to be true is the only reality they know. Therefore, our healing can not depend on their response, change, compassion, etc. We have to find it outside of that structure entirely - in God, in the Word and in each other.
So, in moving forward, I read a research report this week about how writing about traumatic situations and events helps the person move on and is being used by many doctors to help people heal from events ranging from war to abuse to events like we have gone through. In fact there is a summary of that topic in Jan 2006 Better Homes Magazine too. In the book, Purpose Driven Life, Rick Warren suggests that you write a letter you will never send. Spell out all the details, all the names, the pain, the feelings, etc. and then destroy it. That helped me tremendously - even if my thoughts or feelings didn't seem rational, I put them down and listed specifics - mind you it was a very long letter, but it was good for me! This blog site is a therapeutic tool for many. As you begin to formulate your thoughts and experiences in words, it helps you sort them out and move on from them. It takes part of the power of those memories away in a sense. It doesn't erase the things that happen or the emotions tied to those events, but it will help you begin to make sense of what you've been through and help you to put them to rest.
Thank you for your help and for the blogspot. May we all find the healing we're looking for. Bless you!
TO THE LEADERSHIP OF LFF - MOVE ON ALREADY!!
I was just enjoying the fact that we did exactly what we wanted on New Year's Eve and New Year's Day and didn't have to spend the whole night listening to people who love to hear themselves talk! Assuming they have the corner on "God's vision" for the year. No, we simply enjoyed our friends and our family and then went to bed!
We just returned from a trip to visit our families, including a stop in Pullman. It was amazing to me the calls you get - the "we really would like to see you and talk to you". WHY? Wasn't 15-20 years of you talking enough? What more could you say? There is nothing else I would like to hear from any of you other than, "please forgive me". But I do not hold my breath on that one. Not a single one of them tried to contact us in the last 4-5 years, why the urgency to interrupt our family time once again for you? I don't think so!
It amazes me at how (pardon if this is offensive) retarded socially those who have been at LFF are...me included, but time is helping that area! In normal life, guess what, people move on. Friends, neighbors, etc. come and go - they make new friends, they get a life. Why do they feel the need to continue to try to "talk to us" after over years and years? I moved many times as a kid. There are some close friends, but I didn't try to hunt down the kid who I had trouble with in 2nd grade to "talk". Bottom line - to those of you from LFF who read this site (Kari included - we know you're there!) - GET A LIFE!!
Can you move on already? There is not one additional word I would like to hear from any of the leadership - current or past. NOT ONE! I am not interested in your "yada, yada" on how much better everything is or your list of improvements, accomplishments or prayer requests. I'm sure there is some current HCL or JCD you can lean on for support - this shoulder and heart are not available to you!
And to the good hearted people we saw that mean well - bless you! Your down to earth, accepting ways are what a real Christian looks like. YOU should be the pastors! To the rest of you - oops - so sorry we didn't return your calls! Have a nice life!
I have just found a book that made me laugh so hard! It is called A FieldGuide to Evangelicals & Their Habitat by Joel Kilpatrick. You can learnwhat Evangalicals believe, how to identify one in the field, How to see themin their natural habitat, how to decorate like an evangelical....The funnything is that you could change the word "Evangelical" and put in "LFFer" andit wouldn't be too far off.Isn't that funny? I remember how we used to feel about those"Evangelicals"! We were so much better than them. We were the ones on firefor God. But if you look at this book, you will see that, sadly, weweren't too much different from them at all. I highly suggest you read thisbook for a good laugh. I can't put it down. They also have a great website www.larknews.comEnjoy, John Brower
I am from Pennsylvania and never attended this church that you speak of. I was trying to get the lyrics ,music, and history behind the song and pulled up this website. How sad. My Dad is a pastor and I grew up as a PK. Instead of constantly bashing the family, why not pray for them? Bring your prayers and concerns to Jesus. He understands and will listen. Also, the enemy works strong in a pastor's family, because he doesn't want God's message to get out. Pray for everyone involved in ministry! Pray that they will be able to stand against the enemy. We are in a spiritual battle and we need to come together in prayer!Lititz, PA
Thank God for what you are doing. I have several relatives who have been involved with Living Faith Fellowship for decades. Their lives have been twisted, their hearts broken and – worse yet – they have learned how to use deceptive, manipulative techniques to influence those around them for their own gain. Instead of following the way of the Jesus of the Gospels, these relatives have been taught to follow the Bardens. Even those among them who have broken away find themselves emotionally damaged and deeply confused.
Many of my relatives still cling to the desire to please the LFF hierarchy, in spite of all that I (and other caring relatives) have done to persuade these dear family members of the lack of biblical grounding for Karl and Sherri’s “teachings”, the lack of credible academic credentials of the pastoral leadership, the clear violation of psychological boundaries and many other abuses of their “leadership” positions. I have learned a great deal about this cult-like church from former members, and although the common “word on the street” is that things are better under the leadership of Karl and Sherri’s daughter & son-in-law, I cannot see it. The current “pastors” have no more training, expertise, biblical grounding or credibility than the “founding pastors”. Phil and Kari are enmeshed with Karl and Sherri. As far as I can tell, the sick, disgusting and abusive practices begun by the founders have been institutionalized throughout LFF’s “ministries” over time. It is a system and Phil and Kari are deeply entangled within it. The entire enterprise needs to be exposed to the Light.
It is commonly known that before persons who have suffered physical, psychological and/or sexual at the hands of family members can find healing, they first must be willing to tell the “family secret”. That is what you are doing by creating and maintaining this blog. You are allowing the victims of abuse to “tell” the “family secrets”. Please do not shy away from the task until all is exposed. There is much that needs to be discussed about several of the most disturbing aspects of LFF’s history and practice.
If I may – I would like to suggest a few additional topics which may have not been fully explored -- as yet -- on your site. Among the issues that might be beneficial to discuss, I would name: the annual lavishing of gifts upon the Bardens by the various “home groups”; the lack of accountability structures by which members could have/can exercise checks and balances upon the LFF leadership; the destination of the millions of dollars that has flowed through LFF (I’ve seen discussions of the excessive “tithing” required, but not enough about where all the money went – I have heard that the Bardens and their associates have invested a lot of it in real estate); and the exaltation of Sherri as “God’s Woman”.
I applaud your courage. What you are doing is a service to Christ and his Church.
God Bless You for Your Efforts!
An Anonymous Observer
I am the Dread Pirate Roberts (for you Princess Bride fans!). The healing that this blog is bringing to all of us is too important to stop, so the posts will continue. You will see some posts that are dated a while ago, just so we can make it through the backlog. Keep reading and commenting. The truth is a good thing, and it is setting us free.
Sincerely,
DPR! (aka, your editors)
Concerned bloggers have inquired asking why emails have not been posted to the site recently. And some have speculated that the blog had been "shut down" somehow. However the real reason has to do with the fact that the administrator found the process just too painful to continue and has made the following statement:
"Thank you for your concern. As we went on publishing this blog, re-living these memories became often too painful..."
Ultimately, all of us must let go our grip of the past (whether painful, pleasant, or both) in order to embrace what God is doing presently and to embrace what He intends to do in our lives next. (And yes, sometimes we need to vent our pain and anger before moving onward. And to that end much said on this site has been therapeutic.)
And beyond the expression of pain many have felt the need to see the Truth expose untruths. We just cannot be a part of those who continue to compliment the "emperor" on his "new clothes". We ask, "Hey, am I the only one who sees that he doesn't have any clothes on???" The answer is, "No brother and sister, there are many who see the same thing."
Until we meet again bloggers let's remember that the Truth is a Person and not a thing and that He is not negotiable. "He is the same yesterday, today and forever."
"So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the Truth and the Truth will make you free."
Blessings upon all as you travel the freedom road of Jesus Christ.
