Saturday, August 20, 2005

another disregarded letter

To Vances,

Regretfully and painfully, we are separating ourselves officially from Living Faith Fellowship. This letter releases you from any responsibility related to pastoring our family. We are not writing this in a malicious manner, but feel we must be honest before God in what follows in this letter.

In short, our trust in your pastorship has been shattered. We have lost confidence in your ability to lead this congregation or manage the responsibilities that come with that pastorship. We have addressed and voiced our concerns both with you and with advisory board members. These concerns have also been voiced corporately by others, in many meetings over the past several years.

We feel that your responses to those concerns were not honest or adequate. We are not requiring or asking for change on your part, but for us it would be a complete lack of integrity to continue to support your leadership.

Since you have mentioned many times how the investment you have in people is not being recognized or given back, we want to clarify that our departure is not a result of “disgruntled”, “dissenting”, or ungrateful hearts. We acknowledge the abundant goodness of God in our lives and the work He has done through the years (here at LFF and before). We look forward to and seek His continued guidance, blessing and purpose throughout our lives. We also note that His work has, and always will be based on hearts that are hungry for Him.

This is an important distinction; He responds to the hearts of men not the workings of any church. Know that any investment you made in us on His behalf will not be poorly spent. He will accomplish His purposes and we plan to be a part of that.

We are not going to repeat the list of specific concerns in this letter. We have addressed many of them with you directly, over the years. Your response on many occasions has been an initial willingness to work things through and ask forgiveness, but then explain why we were wrong to have been hurt, burdened, confused or offended.

On other occasions we have been left without answers and required to trust you in the midst of our confusion or pain. Our concerns no longer lie in any specific incident(s) but in the established pattern of your leadership and your choices.

Please understand that this letter is not written without empathy for your situation. The deepest confusion in making this decision to leave is that we are so full of compassion towards you and especially our church family.

Yet our conscience and discernment in God must be constantly suppressed if we are to remain supportive and loyal. Jesus has shown us that it is possible to have the fullest feelings of love, empathy, grace and forgiveness towards a person or situation and yet not like, sympathize or support them. He loves everyone, understands what makes them who they are today, and He readily extends grace and forgiveness even when they don’t know what they’ve done.

But that does not mean He likes what they do, feels sorry for them, or displays unconditional support to their situation. Like Him, we can have deeply conflicting emotions co-existing in our souls.

Sympathy for your situation, although understandable, is a distraction from the issues that still linger. You are not victims. Not of the founding pastors. Not of the members of this church (past or present). Not of the financial situation. You are the leaders. You have made choices free from or against the counsel of others or the affirmation of this congregation.

You have not been forthcoming about these decisions. You put members in a position where they must corner you with just the right question to find out about decisions you should have fully disclosed to the congregation. Just like we have been volitional all these years, so have you. Sadly, you will carry the weight of those choices without the support you once had from this congregation.

We know there is no perfect church with perfect doctrine or perfect relationships. We are more aware than any of how imperfect we ourselves are. We do, however, desire a church experience where we are not always questioning the integrity of the leadership, both past and present. It should be known that we feel that the Bardens have at least an equal responsibility in this matter. Your commitment to honor them as parents and as the founding pastors has forced you to compromise the trust and care of this congregation.

We are convinced too, that God’s heart is not for us to be continually overcoming stumbling stones that have been thrown in our path. We have tried to take responsibility for them, we have tried to rationalize them away, we have tried to move them out of our way, we have tried to carry them, we have repented of them, we have tried to ignore them, we have tried to overcome them with more commitment, loyalty and sacrifice. We have begged God to change our hearts, give us strength, help us cover in love these things that shred our souls. We have tried to become better communicators; more honest, thorough, detailed, warm, approachable, direct, etc. We have sought God deliberately and continually for the past several years about these growing concerns in our heart.


We now believe He has instead released us to go a different direction. We are done stumbling over the issues that are embedded in the very make-up of Living Faith Fellowship.

We have a great hope in Christ our Lord and Savior for our lives, our family and His Church. May God grant you understanding.

17 comments:

Anonymous said...

well written. i whole-heartedly and emphatically echo the sentiment of that letter.

Anonymous said...

as do i... it is a shame that letters such as this are immediately dismissed -- more like a perfect example of irony really.

James said...

This letter is incredible, and all too true. But, I would like to say also, that it is odd and fascinating how such a horrible experience could become the inspiration for such a wonderful piece of literature which, both for it's substance and style deserves a much wider audience.

James said...

And I would also like to say, I AM NOT AFRAID TO BE NAMED!

Anonymous said...

The inspiration for this letter had nothing to do with the "horrible experience" of LFF. It had nothing to do with communicating our departure to the pastors (they really didn't deserve the information). The true inspiration for this letter was the hundreds of people we have served together with for the cause of Christ. We wanted to honor as many of those people as we could get to. The results were mixed, but we did what we felt was God-honoring. If we were wrong, His forgiveness is available.

As for the pain of this "horrible experience"- sure it hurts. Sure it festers. But life is full of pain and dissappointment. We had plenty of that in our lives long before LFF joined that list. God faithfully carries us through each ordeal. I can't remember a time in my life where He didn't introduce some instance which required me to trust Him more. I must not be a very good learner. Life is mixed. With the pain and dissappointment there is also joy, delight and gladness that can cut as deep as the hurt. That is an element of God's creative hand that amazes me. Experiencing two opposing feelings so deeply at the same time. We are glad to be alive and to feel all of these things. We plan to continue drinking in the life He has given to us.

Also, we have been named. In respect for those who have put this site together.... we remain anonymous only on this blog.

Anonymous said...

I was just reading in the appendix of "Twisted Scriptures" and found that it was really interesting that the people who were in the discipleship movement actually had their personality change (Meyers/Brigg tests, remember MIRROR class) as they subjected themselves to being in a disciple relationship. This is very unhealthy and resulted in many of them having many problems (especially when they hit a mid-life crisis). Depression was among the things that was commonly found. I know that my entire family went through depression before we left, when we left and to today still has bouts of depression. That is why it is so important to hear God for yourself and follow what you hear. Don't try to be someone you are not. God made you who you are, so rejoice in that and don't feel guilty if you are different from the norms that others have put on you.

I have read the Four Agreements and much of it I don't bother with (he gets into all kinds of mystical dreaming). But if you remember the basic four agreements it will help you immeasurably.
(from http://www.miguelruiz.com/teachings/fouragreements.html)
1. Be Impeccable With Your Word
Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.

2. Don't Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you wonít be the victim of needless suffering.

3. Don't Make Assumptions
Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.

4. Always Do Your Best
Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse and regret.

Anonymous said...

I salute you! I left Lff in 1980. As I drove away from Pullman to attend college in another city an immense sense of peace and joy filled my heart unlike any I had experienced in Pullman. Freedom of mind, body and spirit to truly worship my Lord and Savior with my whole being. Whenever I questioned the leadership directly or indirectly I would be told that someone would pray for me. I was tired of hearing Pastor says this and Pastor says that. I would say What does the bible say?, and their response would be a dumbfounded look in my direction. I remember being chastised for asking why the Pastor's daughters didn't help clean their house, instead of church members. I was told it was leadership training. I remember many things that make me laugh now. It has been 25 years since I left. I truly wish all involved, past, present and future God's guidance and wisdom. I believe that the Bardens were doing the best they could. I don't believe that they intentionally set out to hurt anyone. They truly love Jesus Christ. They are far from perfect, and they know it. Karl Barden by his own admission was a reluctant shepherd. Sherri definitely had her favorites. Somehow she had the impression that I was of a sloven nature and told me so. I was quite surprised to hear this. I was an outdoorswoman, longhair, didn't wear much makeup. Didn't have a wardrobe to speak of. Trying to make it without a lot of help from my parents. Not because they couldn't but because they thought it was better for children to carve out a life using as much of their own energy and resources. This I have done. I thank the Lord for all He has provided and for the abilities He gives. I felt that Sherri was very condescending towards me. Also Pastor Kevin was very harsh in his judgement of me. I appreciated his worship ministry very much. I still pray for them and doubt very much that they have ever thought twice about me. I wasn't on the tithing honor roll! Anyhoo...life goes on and hopefully all the hurting departees will heal and move on. Allow yourselves to breathe deep and run into God's arms. There are plenty of healthy church environments out there. Don't let the LFF experience continue to drag you down. Focus on the positive, the good that can be gleaned from that time in your life. I have more good memories than bad and believe me, it is better to focus on the good in others for your own sake as well as theirs. I'm not trying to excuse any wrong that was or is currently being done. God is our judge and our teacher when it comes to amending our ways. We must be willing to see our own errors and arrogance. We need to care deeply about how our words and actions affect other vulnerable and sensitive believers. Most young people who are serving God are looking for guidance. Their trust must not be shattered by leadership.

Anonymous said...

Does your name begin with a "D" and did you drive a station wagon?

Anonymous said...

sorry, the person I'm thinking of left a couple years after you did...does your name begin with "M"?

Anonymous said...

This letter is eloquently written and so true. It expresses my sentiments exactly. I am grieved at the state of LFF and am eternally grateful to my Father God that I am no longer there. And yet, I still love so many of the people there. I grew up at LFF and left one year after high school. While practically none of my childhood friends are still there, many of my parents' generation still attend. I ache for them and long for them to find the freedom and love that I have found in Jesus, the real Jesus--not the mind-controlling "Jesus" that I was raised with. I have been gone several years now, and I am happier, healthier and more at peace than I have ever been in my life. It makes no sense to me...I should be wandering lost and broken somewhere (many of my friends are). But somehow, in His grace, God saw fit to bring me through extensive healing in the time I have been gone. My sincere prayer is that everyone who was or is a part of LFF is able to walk through everything full circle and to come into the life and truth that are available through Jesus. I received so much good while I was at LFF, and I will never forget it. But I will also never forget the abuse. I am much wiser for the time I spent in Pullman...and I am much stronger because I am no longer there. Blessings on each one of you--I love you all.

Anonymous said...

What a remarkable testamony. Thanks for sharing your letter. One of the difficulties you will likely face is the conflict of trying to decide what to believe and what to disregard as false. Remember that God's word is always right - that morality and personal integrity are always right choices. The Apostle Paul has a great discussion in Romans 14:5 about whether or not to honor the Sabbath and conculdes it is up to one's conscience - so much for legalism! Keeping the sabbath was a big deal to the Jews. My point is that it is OK to have doctrinal differences! Enjoy your liberty in Christ but don't do anything you heart tells you is definately wrong, or where NT scripture is clear.
As for cutting Dr. Barden any slack I find the NT Scriptures telling. Paul, Peter and James waste no time in condemning those who lead others astray. Dr. Barden would do well to read about Balaam's error which had to do with greed. 2 Peter 2:15 says that Balaam was rebuked for his error by a donkey - "a beast without speach - who spoke with a man's voice and restrained the prophets (Balaams) madness." So the Bible calls greed madness. The NT also calls greed idolotry in Colossians 3:5! Scripture exposes the LFF leadership as idolators. How can we tell? By looking at the fruit on the tree. The yacht, expensive cars, gold jewelry, leather jackets, etc. are not found in any NT list under the Gifts of the Spirit. Check out 1 Cor 6:9 for Gods take on idolaters. The reluctant shephard waited until the church could replace his full dentistry income before going from part time to full time. He "had gotten used to a rather high life style" as he put it. It was about the money. Imagine if the Barden clan had to pay for all the free food, free lawn care, free auto-care, free... free... from "volunteers" who couldn't get off his crews if they wanted to (I wasn't able to).
Dr. Barden rebuked me once when i pointed out the scripture where Paul rebuked Peter to his face for something wrong that Peter had done. And of course that ran contrary to the principle "not to recieve an accusation against an elder". Barden's sharp reply was that i was not an apostle like Paul so therefor i could be rejected. I guess he forgot about Balaams donkey.
I'm not suggesting to be anything less than respectful in approaching leadership. 1 Timothy 5 speaks extensively about relationships in the body of christ. The full reading of scripture in 1 Tim 5:19 says "Do not entertain an accusation against an elder UNLESS IT IS BROUGTH BY TWO OR THREE WITNESSESS. THOSE WHO SIN ARE TO BE REBUKED PUBLICALY, SO THAT THE OHTERS MAY TAKE WARNING." Vs 21 continues: "I CHARGE YOU IN THE SIGHT OF GOD AND CHRIST JESUS AND THE ELECT ANGELS, TO KEEP THESE INSTRUCITONS WIHTOUT PARTIALITY, AND TO DO NOTHING OUT OF FAVORITISM."
All these years Barden has insulated himself from criticism by omitting and passing over these sorts of scriputres - he doesn't think they apply to him. There have been more than two or three witnesses but he suffers no public rebuke. We've all been taught to respect authority but the other side of the coin is our duty to reject false authority - even to rebuke it publically.
I'm not suggesting a bitter response but a vigerous Biblical response to false teaching and even public rebuke of false teachers. I remember being shocked by P Kevin when he told me that the doctrine of footwashing had only one scripture to back it up! Out of his mouth a week earlier he had said "if your doctrine has only one scriputre then you don't have a doctrine". Many such twisted methods they use to justify their errant, and lucrative teachings.
If we fail as Christians to stand up to such abuses, what will God have to do to bring it all down?
Karl and Kari & company may shrug their shoulders like Eli did with Samuel - God have mercy. My hope is that they will have a change of heart. Karl - if you are listening - the chief shephard of the sheep will come and set things right one day. It is far better to humble yourself now. Learn from the example of Nicodemus or suffer the fate of Balaam.

George N. Sally

PS you can bet Bardens monitor this site daily.

Anonymous said...

To the writers of the initial post/letter, I just wanted to say that we love you and miss you a lot!
Many people who post here may not understand that when people leave, it causes a great deal of pain for those of us who choose to stay. As someone who has seen a multitude of LFF friends leave, I know all too well the intense feelings of pain and rejection caused by having those you love and care about disfellowship themselves from you.
Also, do not think that those of us who choose to remain are not aware of the many shortfallings of lff and leadership (and non-leadership), both past and present. While some are truly ignorant of these things, there are many of us who choose to stay and work change from the inside. Outside efforts such as this blog aren't really going to be effective (anymore than laser-printed flyers on the UCC), sorry to say. Change from the inside-out is what it takes (and lots and lots of time, change isn't easy). This is what makes it all the more sad to see good people like the posters of this entry leave. When good people go, it makes the struggle all the harder for those who are left.
I don't know how long I will be in the area, as work or family may at any time take me elsewhere, but as long as I'm here, I will continue to attend LFF and be a voice, however small, of honesty and reason.
For those who've chosen to leave, I continue to pray that you would find a body of believers where you can worship, strengthen your relationship with God, seek unity of the body (not discord), and grant forgiveness to those you feel have wronged you (whether they ask for it or not).
And to those who claim to be afraid of naming yourselves for fear of retribution, I can only say this, in my experience the primary thing that I hear when those who've left are mentioned these days is "gosh I miss them". I can only hope that someday God grants us the grace of unity once again and we can all worship him together. That may not happen until we reach Heaven, but oh how I long for that day!

Anonymous said...

To the previous comment:

Thank you for your expression of love and care. Although we know it in our hearts, it is nice to hear we are warmly thought of. We will always remember the times shared with those who loved Jesus Christ and gave everything in service to Him. We do miss many of you(there and gone), too.

We would like to clarify a few points that you made, or at least share our perspective.

First, we did not post our letter on this blog. Our writing was made available to many and was posted by some other soul who thought it may help those who visited here. Also, the blog master chose to exclude our names in the spirit of their purpose here. Our names were included on the letters we sent out. We became aware of it being posted on this site when a friend called to let us know.

Second, we do understand, quite deeply, the pain for those who remain. We were some of those who “remained” a very long time. We experienced the hardship and pain of friendships that changed. We stayed for many of the exact same reasons you expressed so well. We know that nobody going through this experience gets to bypass the pain of the situation…. whether they stay or go. It all hurts. Of course it’s hard when good people leave, hard on those who stay and those who go. It is difficult to sort out. Would you rather good people stay only to have their conscience seared in order to look the other way on issues of integrity and stewardship? That was the only option given to us. That was our fork in the road. We do understand that not everyone’s “fork in the road” is based on the same experiences.

Third, we admire your tenacity and commitment to bring the needed change. If you believe you still have a voice of influence, then you may not feel free to leave. We did not feel God release us until we were told (by leadership) we had no voice or influence. The words spoken to us were “get on board or get out of the way”. Most of all, be sure that you guard your voice and heart so that it continues in the “honesty and reason” you believe in. Do not compromise on this or you will be searing your conscience. No church group is worth that and it is not God’s will. God’s kingdom is large and alive and everywhere. He never requires us to give up the fruit of His Spirit in the name of service to Him. If you can truly work change from the inside we would rejoice and celebrate with you! That would be the miracle we prayed would happen for years. God grant you strength and wisdom as you pursue this endeavor.

Additionally, please forgive us if you felt us calling you ignorant. We know many people at LFF are aware of the things that are problematic. Those people choose to continue at LFF for various reasons. We do not judge those who stay, especially when it’s for reasons such as you stated. It may, however, be wise to consider the possibility that many things have deliberately been suppressed and that if we all knew the extent of the truth we could have moved on together. But that disclosure never came from those who had the power and responsibility to inform us….especially in the covenant relationship that we believed we were in.

In all honesty, what we were aware of and how it that information was handled -- was a devastating blow to any remaining hope we had for change where it needed to happen. Based on our experience and knowledge we could not continue at LFF in good conscience before God. But we don’t believe everyone that chooses to stay is accursed, ignorant or stupid. God will use sincere and genuine Christians anywhere. He always has at LFF, in spite of the leadership.

Everyone has to make their own decisions, which will be primarily based on their experiences and knowledge. If we would’ve had the strength earlier in our experience to really stand up for what the Bible says, it may have brought change, or we could have left sooner. But, alas God knows.

So please understand, we respect those genuine Christians in the congregation who stay, whatever their reasons may be. But we have no regard or respect for the leadership, past or present. Our hearts have forgiven (and will continue to), and we do understand they are have their own pain to bear, but they have forever lost any respect or trust we once willingly gave to them.

Fourth, be careful how readily you discard this blog or it’s influence. The posters on the pillars of the UCC had ALOT of influence. Do you remember all the changes inside and out, both in the church and in the community. It was HUGE for everyone. Does that mean it was all good or right? I can’t judge what God was doing but He uses all kinds of vessels to speak to people. At the very least, people who visit this blog should be challenged to search out what scripture says and let that truly be the light that guides their path. Please don’t misinterpret us…. we are not on a band-wagon or storming the mountain trying to bring the leadership to their knees and execute the needed change. We know we have enough “goods” to cause a major uprising if that were our goal. We certainly wouldn’t need to do it through a blog. But that is not our goal. That is not the goal of this blog either. But undeniably, there has been much effect from the blog, some good and some bad, some God and some not.

A small side note, we know (and have been approached with) a genuine movement for healing and forgiveness because so many people are hurt, damaged and/or bitter. A necessary process for us all. We have visited with many people living in all different states in this regard. But it seems dangerous to view those exhibiting such pain as justificaiton for the position of the past and present leadership. That may not make sense to you, depending on how much you are aware of. But, in spite of the questions we asked, we were told that our problem was our hurt and pain and we handled it inappropriately since we had so many questions. So it seemed that anyone who was not “healthy” could not have valid questions or concerns, and certainly could not get answers to those questions. We were left with the sense that truly loyal and whole people would not need to ask any questions. Or that they would be too mature to stumble over questionable behavior/decisions of the leadership.

We believe that regardless of the emotional/spiritual state of people related to LFF, leadership is entirely responsible for what they have done. Even if everyone “moved on” in wholeness, completely without pain, or “backslid” into the abyss of bitter wickedness, neither of these personal responses exonerates leadership’s responsibilities to their congregation. The leadership of LFF has not taken responsibility for what they did. Thankfully, God is sooooo much bigger and can take us on in Him even without this situation being “made right” by those who have the power to do it.

Lastly, we do appreciate your recognition that good people have left. We know God’s goodness to us and His goodness through us. We want to put your heart at ease that we readily found a solid church to attend where we feel nourished in Him. Our hearts have embraced forgiveness -- that was necessary years before we left. We also recognize it is a continual process, much like repenting. That is the wonder of Jesus’ work. It is always available for whatever the day brings, which is a mixture of our humanity and His active presence. The most important thing to know is that God loves us and is working everywhere. He is mighty and His Word never fails. He is our goodness, the source of all we are. Our church life is only a reflection of His great work in our individual hearts and families. Church life doesn’t define us. God and His completed work through Jesus does. That is the only hope we have. That is the hope we pass on to our children. We are confident that our children will taste and see that the Lord is good wherever He leads us.

God Bless!

Anonymous said...

To the previous comment:

Thank you for your expression of love and care. Although we know it in our hearts, it is nice to hear we are warmly thought of. We will always remember the times shared with those who loved Jesus Christ and gave everything in service to Him. We do miss many of you(there and gone), too.

We would like to clarify a few points that you made, or at least share our perspective.

First, we did not post our letter on this blog. Our writing was made available to many and was posted by some other soul who thought it may help those who visited here. Also, the blog master chose to exclude our names in the spirit of their purpose here. Our names were included on the letters we sent out. We became aware of it being posted on this site when a friend called to let us know.

Second, we do understand, quite deeply, the pain for those who remain. We were some of those who “remained” a very long time. We experienced the hardship and pain of friendships that changed. We stayed for many of the exact same reasons you expressed so well. We know that nobody going through this experience gets to bypass the pain of the situation…. whether they stay or go. It all hurts. Of course it’s hard when good people leave, hard on those who stay and those who go. It is difficult to sort out. Would you rather good people stay only to have their conscience seared in order to look the other way on issues of integrity and stewardship? That was the only option given to us. That was our fork in the road. We do understand that not everyone’s “fork in the road” is based on the same experiences.

Third, we admire your tenacity and commitment to bring the needed change. If you believe you still have a voice of influence, then you may not feel free to leave. We did not feel God release us until we were told (by leadership) we had no voice or influence. The words spoken to us were “get on board or get out of the way”. Most of all, be sure that you guard your voice and heart so that it continues in the “honesty and reason” you believe in. Do not compromise on this or you will be searing your conscience. No church group is worth that and it is not God’s will. God’s kingdom is large and alive and everywhere. He never requires us to give up the fruit of His Spirit in the name of service to Him. If you can truly work change from the inside we would rejoice and celebrate with you! That would be the miracle we prayed would happen for years. God grant you strength and wisdom as you pursue this endeavor.

Additionally, please forgive us if you felt us calling you ignorant. We know many people at LFF are aware of the things that are problematic. Those people choose to continue at LFF for various reasons. We do not judge those who stay, especially when it’s for reasons such as you stated. It may, however, be wise to consider the possibility that many things have deliberately been suppressed and that if we all knew the extent of the truth we could have moved on together. But that disclosure never came from those who had the power and responsibility to inform us….especially in the covenant relationship that we believed we were in.

In all honesty, what we were aware of and how it that information was handled -- was a devastating blow to any remaining hope we had for change where it needed to happen. Based on our experience and knowledge we could not continue at LFF in good conscience before God. But we don’t believe everyone that chooses to stay is accursed, ignorant or stupid. God will use sincere and genuine Christians anywhere. He always has at LFF, in spite of the leadership.

Everyone has to make their own decisions, which will be primarily based on their experiences and knowledge. If we would’ve had the strength earlier in our experience to really stand up for what the Bible says, it may have brought change, or we could have left sooner. But, alas God knows.

So please understand, we respect those genuine Christians in the congregation who stay, whatever their reasons may be. But we have no regard or respect for the leadership, past or present. Our hearts have forgiven (and will continue to), and we do understand they are have their own pain to bear, but they have forever lost any respect or trust we once willingly gave to them.

Fourth, be careful how readily you discard this blog or it’s influence. The posters on the pillars of the UCC had ALOT of influence. Do you remember all the changes inside and out, both in the church and in the community. It was HUGE for everyone. Does that mean it was all good or right? I can’t judge what God was doing but He uses all kinds of vessels to speak to people. At the very least, people who visit this blog should be challenged to search out what scripture says and let that truly be the light that guides their path. Please don’t misinterpret us…. we are not on a band-wagon or storming the mountain trying to bring the leadership to their knees and execute the needed change. We know we have enough “goods” to cause a major uprising if that were our goal. We certainly wouldn’t need to do it through a blog. But that is not our goal. That is not the goal of this blog either. But undeniably, there has been much effect from the blog, some good and some bad, some God and some not.

A small side note, we know (and have been approached with) a genuine movement for healing and forgiveness because so many people are hurt, damaged and/or bitter. A necessary process for us all. We have visited with many people living in all different states in this regard. But it seems dangerous to view those exhibiting such pain as justificaiton for the position of the past and present leadership. That may not make sense to you, depending on how much you are aware of. But, in spite of the questions we asked, we were told that our problem was our hurt and pain and we handled it inappropriately since we had so many questions. So it seemed that anyone who was not “healthy” could not have valid questions or concerns, and certainly could not get answers to those questions. We were left with the sense that truly loyal and whole people would not need to ask any questions. Or that they would be too mature to stumble over questionable behavior/decisions of the leadership.

We believe that regardless of the emotional/spiritual state of people related to LFF, leadership is entirely responsible for what they have done. Even if everyone “moved on” in wholeness, completely without pain, or “backslid” into the abyss of bitter wickedness, neither of these personal responses exonerates leadership’s responsibilities to their congregation. The leadership of LFF has not taken responsibility for what they did. Thankfully, God is sooooo much bigger and can take us on in Him even without this situation being “made right” by those who have the power to do it.

Lastly, we do appreciate your recognition that good people have left. We know God’s goodness to us and His goodness through us. We want to put your heart at ease that we readily found a solid church to attend where we feel nourished in Him. Our hearts have embraced forgiveness -- that was necessary years before we left. We also recognize it is a continual process, much like repenting. That is the wonder of Jesus’ work. It is always available for whatever the day brings, which is a mixture of our humanity and His active presence. The most important thing to know is that God loves us and is working everywhere. He is mighty and His Word never fails. He is our goodness, the source of all we are. Our church life is only a reflection of His great work in our individual hearts and families. Church life doesn’t define us. God and His completed work through Jesus does. That is the only hope we have. That is the hope we pass on to our children. We are confident that our children will taste and see that the Lord is good wherever He leads us.

God Bless!

Anonymous said...

Perhaps, Troy, it would be best if you stay away from this blog and allow it to be what we all need it to be. You stay with the Vances and LFFers and be what you need to be and perhaps a spell checker would be helpful to you, too.

Ray said...

This blog is an abomination to the Lord according to Proverbs 6:16-19 (New King James Version)
16 These six things the LORD hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
17 A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
19 A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.

The last one esecially applies to this blog, and least 5 out of the 7 can be seen here.

What you are saying about LFF is in the whole body. Stay at any Church long enough and you will see it. Edify the body donn't tear it down!

"To cover an offense is love", according to the word of God. As long as you rail offense about others ministies, yours will never get off the ground.

Daria said...
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