Memories of New Years Eve
I always think about our parties at LFF on New Year's. I remember how fun they used to be at the Barden's house and then when we moved them into the first building on Kimball. I remember how fun it was to hang out with everyone and not worry about working. We could talk, we could play games, we could eat. Of course I got kind of tired of the same food every year. I made stuffed mushrooms which were so good, but you could only eat one or two. You can almost feel your arteries hardening as you eat them!
I also have fond memories of waiting to hear what the Spirit was going to say for the coming year. It always got me excited for the next year. Now, however, as I think back to the prophecies (many of which I typed out to post on the board), it seems that they basically said the same thing. "You are my chosen, and I am going to bring a great revival to the world starting in Pullman!" Well, they say you know a prophet by the accuracy of their prophecy.... As the Jews have said "we know we are your chosen, but can't you chose someone else sometimes?" Does it all seem like the prophecies were just another tool to manipulate us into staying at LFF? I long for the Spirit to speak to me as clearly as I thought it did in those days, but to hear Spirit's true words. Do any of you still journal? Do any of you still hear God's voice like we thought we did at LFF?
I also have fond memories of waiting to hear what the Spirit was going to say for the coming year. It always got me excited for the next year. Now, however, as I think back to the prophecies (many of which I typed out to post on the board), it seems that they basically said the same thing. "You are my chosen, and I am going to bring a great revival to the world starting in Pullman!" Well, they say you know a prophet by the accuracy of their prophecy.... As the Jews have said "we know we are your chosen, but can't you chose someone else sometimes?" Does it all seem like the prophecies were just another tool to manipulate us into staying at LFF? I long for the Spirit to speak to me as clearly as I thought it did in those days, but to hear Spirit's true words. Do any of you still journal? Do any of you still hear God's voice like we thought we did at LFF?
18 comments:
yes I hear God's voice...
there are many different ways to hear His voice...
I am just recently starting to not feel guilty for not using a spiritual notebook though... that method never worked for me, even though we were taught it as though it was the ONLY right way
I journal, but no, I no longer keep a spiritual journal anymore. I still have my spiritual journal and I don't really like to read it. The last time I read it, there were a lot of mixed emotions. I felt bad because I was basically inventing things, that I thought God would say to me. Since I never actually "hear" God in my head. I can feel Him, and sometimes He helps me figure things out, but no, I can't "hear" Him, per se. The entry that I particurlarly hate reading, is when in GG's you start "speaking in tongues" I alwasy felt like a fraud and a friggin' idiot.
What about the "underclass" moms who were not in the top leadership ranks? Their lot sucked. They all had to do double shifts in the nursery. Certain higher ups rarely did nursery duty. I am sure most did not look forward to New Years as all it meant was changing diapers, cleaning up messes etc. Most of them did not get to "hear the Spirit speak." Maybe that is the only backhanded benefit they got from having to serve in the nursery.
It was not fair to them or considerate. I wonder if the practice still goes on?
After I was married I had an oppurtunity take my wife to a new years party with my family, being excited I told my pastor at the time - well I was reamed. I wasn't being a spiritual leader, I was neglecting the body of Christ so i could go "play" with my family. I was given the "who's more important" bit. I felt terrible, and when I tried to 'lead' my wife in the 'correct direction - she couldn't believe this was such a big deal.
Most of the time, the pastors have one half of the marriage in their pocket and the other is a rebel and you need to pray for them and have meetings regarding them. If that makes sense. So my wife was the rebel and leading me astray.
I was made to think I was scum for even thinking about missing out on the 'BIGGEST' night of the year. When God speaks to us through the pastor. My head was spinning. I didn't know what to do.
It's the same old story I guess. Control and manipulation. I swear that party was the lamest event we had throughout the year. After the party, all you hear about is the 'vision' from the pastor for the next four months. So WHY was it so important to go? All anyone does is sit around, shoot the breeze, and play pinnucle - or whatever the crap it is.
Of course, you could be serving and working your butt off. But you should be there, or you aren't being a leader and thinking of others.
"wow, you really have a rebellious spirit. How's your #'s? How's your time with Jesus? Are you reading your Bible everyday? I didn't think so."
Yadda yadda yadda.
Well, lets just say that I 'lead' my wife and I attended. Talk about a waste of time. That was one of the many moments in time where I learned to lead my family by listening from God, not people who thought they were God.
I haven't journalled in a while. The last time I tried it, God would speak to me now and then, more or less accurately, but I stopped writing when my hand got really bad, writing caused more physical pain than I could handle.
I also remember when the New Year's party was fun, back at "the house" and for a while in the first bldg. Then, I had kids, and the menu became fixed, and it was all about making cheese puffs or stuffed mushrooms and keeping track of kids and serving shifts in the nursery and kitchen, and there was never any time to sit with friends before I had to be somewhere else. Also, I am not a crowd and noise kind of person, and the scene could be overwhelming. There was also trying to speed read the last 50 chapters of the Bible so I could say I had read the Bible in a year. I only managed that once, and only by doing it "my own way" rather than following the schedule.
What started out as a non-alcoholic way to have fun on New Year's Eve turned into a legalistic show that was definately Not Fun any more. The same thing could be said about many aspects of church life. When service crews were a once a week volunteer if you want thing, and I was single, it was great to be a part of a group of friends getting some work done. When service crews were every night, and it was "serve or else!", the joy went out of it.
I wonder how those in leadership felt about enforcing the mandatory service crews....
I agree with the thoughts above about New Year's Eve. It would have been so much more peaceful to be able to stay at home with family and friends, eat what we want, and not feel obligated to stay up late "praying in the new year". Praying in the new year was yet one more way to encourage us to feel elitist and chosen, like we were better than other people.
The “spiritual notebooks” just lead to deluding your selves into thinking God is speaking to you. Which results in brain washing your self into accepting it when others claim they hear from God for you. If God really spoke to people like that doesn't anyone think the secular world would know and believe. Doing such a thing makes a mockery of God before the world.
In the end a spiritual note book just ends up being another thing which is given authority over you. People and Christians especially need to wake up and realize that authority starts with them it doesn't lie in a book or in someone else like a pastor. Think about it for anything to have authority over you first you have to yield to it. The bible can't be the ultimate authority on anything nor can anything else unless some one submits to it. A ton of the problems we have in this world are because people don't take responsibility for their actions and try to shift authority to something else.
Isn't it funny how two different people remember things so differently? I really enjoyed the New Year's party, but then, I am a male and didn't have to spend most of the time in the nursery! I therefore remember the time I had playing with friends, jamming, playing ball, etc... I started this topic and I remembered it very differently. Maybe it wasn't as cool as I thought.
I did like welcoming the year with worship, and I guess I had totally forgotten the marathon to finish the Bible in the year. Boy, did I get life out of that! (NOT!)
Anyway, to all of you mothers who spent the whole time comforting children who were taken out of the comfort of their own home and family to sleep in their "cages", I appologize for not thinking of how aweful this must have been for you.
thanks from one of the "underclass" moms who often regretted that those "cages" weren't big enough for me to crawl in and take a much needed nap!
I remember giving a prophesy at church about a certain subject. One of the Associate Pastors also gave a prophesy but mine just happened to be the same subject as Dr. Barden's sermon subject. I had simply described what i saw "in the Spirit". He gave his sermon - but though the word i gave was similar to Barden's little sermon - what i saw and what he described were worlds apart. I didn't have the courage to stand up and say - that is not what i saw (who would?!) so i kept quiet. The Associate Pastor in the mean time was severely rebuked for not hearing God correctly. The price of not being in tune with the main man (the senior pastor i mean, not God).
God also moved dramatically in a healing ministry through quiet a few of us, but when Barden's edict came down "no more of this listeneing to the Spirit stuff" - the results were disasterous and it killed that ministry for everyone on the healing teams. this did not bother Bardens however, since the goal for them was control. I think it was jealousy because healing teams would be busy for an hour after service while "ministry circle" had no visitors. Remember the fear of ministery circle while they "ministered" someone opended a big notebook behind Sheri so she could get the latest dirt on you (or so at least i suppose - anyone have details? please share).
God is so gracious - and patient. Many of you have experience God moving through you and like myself you are questioning just about everything. What is real, what is not? This is very normal.
Another example - being "slain in the Spirit". At LFF this was faked. To be sure there was an earnest expectation and hope of being touched by God. It was the latest fad and people fell over (and were caught by ushers...). It wasn't until i left LFF that i saw an example of somone truely being "slain in the Spirit" and it was so dramatically different! Believe me, if you are slain in the Spirit - you do NOT need an usher to catch you. As a matter of fact you don't float to the ground. You hit like a sack of potatoes dropped off the back of a truck and onlookers will be shocked - but you won't get hurt because it is a genuine God thing and not an imagination or hope so... Additionally you won't have to sway back and forth until you "feel the Spirit" and drift over and be caught. Although truely being slain in the Spirit has never happened to me what i witnessed one night at another church convince me that it is more like being struck involuntarily by lightening but without the harmful effects.
I saw Barden get "slain in the Spirit" once after a service and luckily someone caught him. I've wondered how many bones he would have broken if someone hadn't been there for him. How duped we all were!
What amazes me is that God answered prayers and did healings at all. Maybe things have slipped more since i was there. Some many times they began in the Spirit but always managed to muck it up and end with the flesh (Barden's heavy handed control). One friend said "whatever God does, they organize" (and controlled). They have grieved the Holy Spirit. I wonder how long God will let it continue.
I'm glad for this blog spot. Thank God for it!
I've got to comment about journaling. No i don't journal any more. It was a tool of Bardens to estimate their control over us to see if the brainwashing has worked, duh. They of course read our journals. Hey, i wonder if Pastor Sheri would now let me read hers! I doubt it and i think it would be boring reading anyways.
If you keep a journal - it is something between you and God. It is only a way to encourage yourself. I kept a prayer list and recorded how GOd answered for a while and it was encourageing. Barden's misuse the "Journaling tool" but that does not mean the tool is bad. If you don't keep a journal that is OK with God. I haven't found where any new testament leader or preson kept a journal. It is not a requirement so don't feel guilty if you are not.
By the way - i liked the "serve or else" comment. Thanks. Fear runs LFF plain and simple. I'm so sad to see that it is the same old stuff after so long (since the 80's). When we left LFF we found friends we didn't know we had. They told us that it was like we came out of a time warp or something. I guess they thought of us like the we were a couple from a TV show in the 60's. We had begun shedding the image of Barden.
Take heart - all of us that left took a big step. There are a lot more steps to come but it gets better, slowly.
George N. Sally
Hey - check this out. http://www.watchman.org/cat95.htm Spend some time looking at the definitions and origins of the various movements, cults, philosophies, etc.
Bardens and Vances use the power of definition to bend you to their will. If they can control the definitions they can utterly control (or twist) the doctrines.
When i was there they taught that the local pastor had the authority to set the doctrine of the house. This is sheer nonsence and anti-scriptural.
My Bible says that our faith is built upon the foundation of the apostles and the prophets with Christ Jesus as the chief cornerstone. To teach anything else is anti-christian, that is against Christ himself.
Remember the temptation of Jesus where Satan tempts Jesus? Satan quoted scriptures to Jesus!!!! Satan wanted Jesus to twist scripture for selfish motivation.
So what if Bardens, Vances, Hunters, etc. quote scripture. So did the devil. They may appear to be angels (messengers)of light (truth) but the fruit (the results of their ministry) that they bear testifies against them.
I think one of the hardest things for me coming out of LFF was wondering why I do what I do. It was a struggle for me when I started wanting to read my Bible, wanting to spend time in the morning with God. Did that make me religious like they were? I really struggled with that for a long time but have since come to this conclusion. "Man looks on the outward, but God looks at the heart." God knows my heart. I don't do those things in religiosity, I do it because I love God and I love His Bible. I wouldn't say that it is the only way to get to God, but it has worked for me. I'm glad I got beyond the LFF mindset to realize that I could have a relationship with God for myself.
Well, I just attended this last New Year's Eve party, and I thought it was a lot of fun. Ever since I've had kids, they have had teenagers and those who really wanted to take shifts. I think they mentioned a few years ago that they paid them. It's only 5 years and younger who use the SLEEPING nursery, so it's not like the attendants have their hands full. Most parents keep their kids w/ them anyway. And the person in charge of the nursery this year is a higher up.
There's no longer a "serve or else" attitude. The higher ups who have kids in nursery get rotated through- just like everyone else.
BTW- I was truly slain in the Spirit at LFF w/ out being caught, so I know of at least one person it has happened to ;).
And no, I don't keep a spiritual notebook, because it's not a method that works for me. But I still have quiet time w/ God and I still hear him speak to me.
And to clear up any rumors that might happen because these poor kids are in "cages,"- they are in cribs. The cribs are stacked up like bunk beds because there are lots of them. I know this technique is not unique to LFF and used in many nurseries and day cares. And only babies are put in the cribs. Toddlers sleep on the floor or have cots.
And we're not mandated to go to NYE parties. I know people that have chosen to stay home or do something else and they haven't been berated.
And I agree that some prophecies were off the mark and not from God, but I haven't been hearing any weird or out-there ones lately.
This comes from someone who was a teenager there for this NYE "Service" we are "encouraged" to serve at these events and for us to decline this opportunity would mean a leature and possible punishment for not having a servant's heart. I thought it was interesting in your comment that you said "Ever since I've had kids, they have had teenagers and those who really wanted to take shifts." Just because teenagers are young does not make them slaves as LFF has used us. And trust me there has never been payment to us for our services.
I have often thought about suing LFF for emotional and physical abuse, maybe even a class action suit, it wouldn't be hard to find more people to jump on that band wagon. And the nice thing is, is that LFF would want to settle out of court because they wouldn't want all their dirty little secrets that us that grew up there know spread for the world to see. So LFFers be warned you never know when I might wake up and decide today is the day for retribution.
I think a better idea than sueing would be to write a book or get hollywood interested in doing a movie. How about this: "LFF-the movie (the unauthorized, unrated version)"?
The cool thing about the movie idea is that Hollywood would not need to embelish anyting at all. The lurid jokes told at upper level meetings, the slavish obedience, the forced repentance sessions complete with tears, the lies, the excessive salaries, Oh the intrigues! And what about that thing with Sheri & Kevin? (this was news to me but i am not surprised).
It is no wonder to me that the church has always been afraid that someone would sue them. I am not favorably inclined to recommending a law suite. Although, the class action lawsuite has some merit i must admit. I've gone through a huge amount of pain and suffering as well as financial and social repercussions.
I still hanker after the book or movie idea through. Really - doesn't LFF look just like the world? Full of greed and vice and intrigue.
Just because the mouse lives in the cookie jar does not necessarily mean that he is a cookie. The kingom of heaven is like a big tree where the birds of the air come and land in the brances. Is LFF part of the kingdom of God? Yes - but there are a lot of birds in the branches picking the living daylights out of the fruit. Do you suppose the owner of the orchard is going to come and do something about those nasty birds? I hope some time soon.
George N. Sally
I can't wait until the day there is a big GOING OUT OF BUSINESS sign hanging on that discusting place. By the way, are they still claiming the Bible says to tithe almost 25%???? My whole family is now gone from there and I couldn't be happier. I am sometimes tempted to go back just for one service and sit in the back row with a six pack and laugh at the circus de lies.
Dan Griebling
As to Journalizing, Yes I still do that. God can and does speak to us through any means he deems fit. My best times with God are when I sit in a quiet place communne with him and write. People also mentioned what they thought about being "Slain in the Spirit". Yes I believe that God can cause a person to topple over or even become blind for a time if it's his will. I think there is nothing wrong with people desiring the move of God in their lives. I would rather go to God with expectation and cooperate with the particular expression he is using to communicate with his people and let him bless it however he wishes than to stubbornly pray he come back in physical form and come knock me down and speak to me in an audible voice. My faith is greater than that.
Since leaving and not because of leaving I have recieved a couple of revelations from God. I must say that when I was going to LFF I wanted my communication with God to be more than going through
the motions but I hindered my own growth because I always cared what others around me would think If I really let go and let God. Well God opened my eyes, after being in a major Car accident and lossing a close family member. I went to Church and I did not care what anyone thought anymore. I went to him "Open, Honest and Transparent" for real.
First God told me to pray for the unsaved but not your usual five minute prayer. Try a couple of hours of speaking in tounges, claiming the city the nation and everyone in it and the whole world, spiritual warfare against the evils of this world and satan's oppression over it's people, crying, retching, feeling deep peace and joy, a cloud of vapor containing the room like a heavy fog.
I repeated this again and again I learned that real prayer means real commitment. A relative of mine called with the Spirit of Deppression and Suicide not too long after that initial session. The Spirit of God welled up in me once again and as I prayed I claimed this person's life, their job, their possesions, casting out demons of oppression from every room in their house. Laying hands on everything and Speaking in Tounges until myself and my relative were exhausted from crying and shouting. Now I'm not saying that every prayer should be that way for one to really pray deeply but God knows your heart and how far he can take you.
Second God took me to a new level of worship. The small Church I began attending would worship for hours and sometimes there would be only a very short message or even none at all. Every morning before service I joined a team of intercesors that would pray over every chair and every instrument of worship shouting spiritual warfare over a microphone similar to LFF but with the emotion of a people committed to dragging the devil out of hell and stomping on his head. You never knew the people who would come in off the street and come into that church. Drug addicts, prostitutes, homeless people that smelled really bad all seeking to find an answer. The pastor would pray for these people and plastic would be rolled out on the floor because many times as they were prayed for and demons cast out they would vomit on the floor or fall down screaming or wriggling about.
God showed me that worship was about truly connecting to him. We would sing songs but I would not follow along with the words for long for soon I would be praying in the spirit and God would reveal to me others to pray for in the congregation. Myself and others would pace in the pews as we prayed in the spirit. Waiting for the next move of God to take place sometimes a Prophecy sometimes a march around the room with banners or everyone falling prostrate on our faces before the Lord. God really moved in that place and he brought me to a new knowledge of himself because it's not by what means or how emotional one gets it is a deep unhindered connection to his spirit that he is after. How much can we let go and let God really touch us?
even if I post it here?
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