tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.comments2023-06-15T06:00:36.769-07:00The Truth About Living Faith Fellowship<b>Innocence Destroyed</b>http://www.blogger.com/profile/16298027562605219454noreply@blogger.comBlogger1929125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-91272363753594122512012-02-22T08:22:47.995-08:002012-02-22T08:22:47.995-08:00My name is Pat Allan. I go to living faith now. I ...My name is Pat Allan. I go to living faith now. I have been a Christian since the age of 15. I went to the bible study that started out at the Barton’s. Looking back I believe that God wanted me to experience the power and the uncertain movement of the holy spirit, but I took the safe way out, joined young life and became a cool Christian. I went to the efree church led by Jim Wilson. The teaching was great but it was always understood that lff is a cult of some type. As a Christian I read the word everyday and focused on my personal relationship with God. I grew and believed in evangelism. I have lived a faithful life in Christ, married for 35 years, raised 4 kids, some following Jesus and some not, and struggled most of my life with sin. I have found in all this that God loves us no matter what and that when he has allowed the pain of judgment and disappointment it was to help me learn to love more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-34168935847190649722011-12-17T22:36:59.167-08:002011-12-17T22:36:59.167-08:00nice post love reading itnice post love reading itWomen leather skirts for salehttp://www.leathernxg.com/22-womens-leather-skirtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-68295824051641801352011-12-11T01:57:58.866-08:002011-12-11T01:57:58.866-08:00nice post love reading itnice post love reading itwomen leather skirtshttp://www.leathernxg.com/15-womens-leather-jacketnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-88737962780254047902011-12-08T15:47:53.744-08:002011-12-08T15:47:53.744-08:00I want to address this Blog as being disobedient t...I want to address this Blog as being disobedient to Christ. As a previous member of LFF I can say it is not. As I was involved with membership meetings, JCC, MIRROR and other programs I witnessed horrible abuse. Until my divorce I even had a copy of the Ushers Manual that spoke of Covert Operations. I found out purely by accident (thanks to Tom and Tracy Weaver) how hidden microphones were used. <br /><br />So, let's talk about some things. In a family where there is abuse, do you hide it? No, the more you do the more likely abuse will happen. I don't know who started this page, but I think it is valuable. People have been severely damaged going there. I once walked into a meeting held for the ushers. It was being taught by someone outside of the church that was security or police. I stood in the back and listened how they were taught to control visitors with painful grips that the public could never noticed, if done right. Phil Wait (who I actually have fond memories of) spotted me and escorted me out. Well, I could go on with examples that are actually horrendous, but...<br /><br />Can God work there? Absolutely. Are there good people there? Yes, absolutely. But I know so many people who have left God and our savior Jesus Christ because now they equate Him with LFF and its leadership. Why? Because LFF taught them that (even on a subliminal basis). Not to say we are not responsible for our own choices but the things done to people were (are???) terrible. <br /><br />It would be so wrong NOT to expose what has happened and what may still be happening. I know individuals that have left LFF and had such a breakdown that they have killed others and themselves. The fact that they are still teaching MIRROR and that they have never come clean makes me worried for this church, the leaders and future members. Anyone can contact me: Heather Berg Location Tucson, Arizona on fb or musikalshark@hotmail.com<br /><br />I pray for our healing in Christ.Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15430504144153684625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-63753542396416676202011-12-08T15:21:28.979-08:002011-12-08T15:21:28.979-08:00I don't know who posted this original apology,...I don't know who posted this original apology, but all I can say is thank you. I don't even know if I know you, but just to hear one person say it is amazing. I've never asked or needed an apology, but I do think it is astounding that the leadership and previous leadership can live without doing that. Wow, I have so much I want to say. I know from experience the hardest thing after accepting God's forgiveness is forgiving yourself. I pray you are completely healed in every way. <3 Biggest hugs, and lots of love in OUR Lord :) Anyone can contact me Heather Berg location Tucson, Arizona on fb or musikalshark@hotmail.comHeatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15430504144153684625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-42945855279409756972011-11-14T15:57:21.790-08:002011-11-14T15:57:21.790-08:00to 11/10/11, 10:39 pm:
Thanks for such an articul...to 11/10/11, 10:39 pm:<br /><br />Thanks for such an articulate, well-thought-out response.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-89093734044161232532011-11-10T22:39:59.142-08:002011-11-10T22:39:59.142-08:00I think what some fail to realize is the fact that...I think what some fail to realize is the fact that LFF is built for people who need things delivered with a smile, people who desire outside affirmation to allay their own feelings of inadequacy.<br /><br />If LFF is what kept you from sinning or getting pregnant, then that is great news. As it turns out, the world is full of people possessing the character to make right decisions on their own. In fact, the dramatization of personal struggle between good and evil is a message that serves to weaken most Christians. The world is full of Christians and non-Christians who simply do the right thing without hesitation because were never inculcated with the message of personal weakness which can only be fortified with prayer, the strength of groups or attending church. It is a sad thing the church has done to itself. If you need these things to make right decisions, please continue to use them, the world has plenty of people making a mess of everything as well.<br /><br />With that out of the way let's cover the next topic: This blog is not built for you. <br /><br />This blog is built for people who have already escaped and may need an understanding ear as they cope with the very real fallout of decisions they have made which affected others, decisions made for them through manipulation of the concept of authority, or people who simply hurt from witnessing these things.<br /><br />I really don't understand why so many people come here to tell people that they are wrong. We don't come to your church and tell you that the allegedly nepotistic family dynasty under which you "grow" is a corrupt sales organization. We keep our opinions here. <br /><br />Honestly, I applaud your happy life. Me, I still have dreams, years later, where I am back in a position in which Kari has control. I wake up to physical reactions of fear.<br /><br />So you have your weaknesses: the need for someone to smile and encourage you to grow and remind you not to party. And I have mine: regret over the bullying I participated in while I was at LFF and regret for allowing myself to be bullied.<br /><br />Let's deal with these things the way we need to and leave each other alone. <br /><br />Go with God.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-5916906234857596482011-11-10T21:40:49.709-08:002011-11-10T21:40:49.709-08:00dear differing view, sounds like you fit in quite ...dear differing view, sounds like you fit in quite well at lff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-59079309602532547812011-11-05T22:27:16.381-07:002011-11-05T22:27:16.381-07:00DIFFERING VIEW PART 3
While there may be issues w...DIFFERING VIEW PART 3<br /><br />While there may be issues with leadership or how things will run, you can find those things in every church. And you should not rely on man for your example for perfection. No man is perfect. We are all sinful, mess-up, and hurt people...if you are relying on church leadership to be your Lord than you will never find peace. I go to living faith fellowship because their classes are amazing and have taught me wonderful things about the bible that I have backed up with outside research on my own time (because I trust no man's word alone), the people are my family, and the body of Christ is alive and functioning at LFF. Their practices are scriptural, including the removal from membership (which the bible is actually even harsher about if you read it!). And if I question anything I find the proper authority to pose my questions to and they sit down and explain their reasoning with me backing it up with scripture.<br /><br />THIS BLOG IS A PLACE OF BIBLICAL DISOBEDIENCE. THE BIBLE SAYS NOT TO ARGUE AGAINST FELLOW CHRISTIANS! THE FIGHT SHOULD BE AGAINST THE DEVIL! THE BIBLE ALSO SAYS THAT YOU MUST FORGIVE OTHERS OR YOU YOURSELF WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN--STRAIGHT FORM JESUS'S WORDS. <br /><br />AT LFF YOU EITHER LEAVE OR YOU GROW ASTRONOMICALLY. I MADE MY DECISION TO STAY AND HAVEN'T LOOKED BACK AND THE GROWTH IN CHRIST HAS BEEN AMAZING BECAUSE I WAS WILLING TO ACCEPT THEIR GUIDANCE TO IMPROVE MY CHRISTIAN WALK. THANK GOD FOR LFF. <br />It is encouraging in a way to see the opposition to LFF because where-ever the Lord is moving, there too, the Devil will be most strongly attacking. The Lord moves at LF; people are moved to tears because they feel his presence there...this happened to me and a friend. Tears of happiness streamed down our faces as the warmth of God's love washed over us during worship! (and thank goodness for the convenient tissue boxes among the pews because this is no rare occurrence)I even brought my atheist ex-boyfriend there and he began to believe in the Lord, exclaiming that he could actually feel God's presence. <br /><br />Pardon me for disagreeing bloggers, but LFF has changed me for the better. I do not let people walk on me. I question things often and I find leadership, often pastor Phil to question directly. I argue with the pastors til I am satisfied or agree to disagree and I love that church. The people are friendly, welcoming, and I dont fall through the cracks because I choose not to. I talk to the people who are standing alone. I welcome the newcomers. And I feel at home there. LFF is one of the biggest reasons I am a Christian today and a huge reason I love PullmanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-9007898687038869182011-11-05T22:26:40.183-07:002011-11-05T22:26:40.183-07:00DIFFERING VIEW PART 2
I realized soon, that my wh...DIFFERING VIEW PART 2<br /><br />I realized soon, that my whole reason for wanting to leave LFF had shifted. I had seen this blog and it seriously had harmed my view of the friends I made there. Then I realized that the friendships I had at the church were by no means fake. I have been there too long and am a pro at spotting fake people. They are amazing and some of the most honest and true to them-selves Christians I know. <br /> It occurred to me then, that the whole reason I had wanted to leave LFF and the reason many people in this blog have left is because they did not want people to see their sin. At first I felt this way. I liked my sin and I did not want to change. BUT THANK GOD THE PEOPLE OF LFF ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT MY SOUL AND WANT ME TO LIVE MY LIFE FOR CHRIST!! THANK GOD THEY POINT OUT MY SIN WHEN I AM TRYING TO HIDE AND IGNORE IT AND THANK GOD THEY SWEETLY CHECKED UP ON ME REGULARLY TO SEE IF I HAD GIVEN IT UP! Pastor Suzanne was amazing to me by checking into my life. She truly cared about my soul and my relationship with the Lord! When I rid myself of my sinful doing I was able to celebrate my freedom with her and others and now share my testimony all the time! And they were right when they told me that relationship with God goes hand in hand with true repentance and humility because it wasnt until I mastered those things that communication with the Lord began to flow openly in my life. <br /><br />I DO NOT KNOW WHERE I WOULD BE NOW IF IT WERE NOT FOR THE PEOPLE OF LIVING FAITH FELLOWSHIP. I SURELY WOULD BE PARTYING, WITH AN ABUSIVE BOYFRIEND, AND PERHAPS PREGNANT IF THEY HAD NOT ASKED ME TO COME TO BIBLE STUDY WHEN THEY DID. I NOW HAVE GROWN INTO MORE OF A CHRISTIAN THAN I EVER COULD HAVE DREAMED AND AM GROWING IN MY RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD DAILY.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-84160023182166138662011-11-05T22:26:03.751-07:002011-11-05T22:26:03.751-07:00DIFFERING VIEW PART 1
Most of the pain of LFF occ...DIFFERING VIEW PART 1<br /><br />Most of the pain of LFF occurred under the old leadership of LFF. While new leadership is not perfect, and never will be, I can say there have been many positive changes at LFF. <br /> I have attended LFF as a member for quite some time now and am good friends with the pastors, as well as being involved in college leadership in the Discipleship program. There was once a time where I read this blog because I was not sure I wanted to attend LFF anymore. I was feeling pressured to walk away from sins in my life, so I tried a different popular church in Pullman. I was poorly disappointed. After getting hooked on Pastor Phil's smile, laughter, sense of humor, and appreciation that I had come to church, my encounter with a less friendly pastor at a different church was a huge let down and immediately led me back to LFF. The differences between these two pastors was drastic. While both had great messages, Pastor Phil actually smiled during his, while the other pastor looked miserable. Pastor Phil's use of props and humor make it an entertaining experience to attend church every Sunday. Pastor Phil also always is super enthusiastic to meet knew people I introduce to them and is quick to ask them who they are, where they are at in their walk with the Lord, and shows genuine care for their lives. Used to his friendly nature, I tried to approach this less-friendly pastor and introduce myself only to be turned away with his disinterest in getting to know me. <br />Not only are the people super nice, and my best friends at LFF, Pastor Phil also talked to me in the early AM hours when I was having a really rough time and had no one else to call. He promptly answered the phone and consoled me through my issue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-54089292948360703382011-09-02T19:23:51.617-07:002011-09-02T19:23:51.617-07:00No, you definitely weren't the only ones that ...No, you definitely weren't the only ones that suffered - so many did. I hope that reading over the posts and comments in this blog brings some measure of understanding and healing. You are not alone, and you weren't alone back when you attended LFF. The leadership and members had a way of making people feel isolated, unsupported, and unfaithful if they questioned or weren't in lock-step with the vision.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-66504908633809661612011-09-01T20:25:35.235-07:002011-09-01T20:25:35.235-07:00I met my wife at LFF and we left in the early 80&#...I met my wife at LFF and we left in the early 80's (Yes, I remember you John Brower). I'm not going to outline our experience here, because some readers may figure out who we are. I stumbled on this site a few hours ago after someone mentioned LFF in a passing conversation and I googled it just to see where things ended up after all these years. I've been mesmerized reading this stuff over the past few hours because I know from firsthand experience that much of it to be true. All these years, I thought we were the only ones that suffered at the hand of LFF... <br><br />I've never forgotten the pain I suffered at the hand of the Bardens. In one incident, I had to miss my LFF assigned work detail in order to attend my grandfatrher's funeral. Karl Barden was furious and called me at the funeral location to tell me he wanted to meet with me that night when I returned. I met him and Sherri about 10pm that night only to be fired from my leadership role and replaced by someone who was more committed. <br><br />We don't attend church anymore, but are still believers. Our experience at LFF has left permanent scars that I can't elaborate about. Sick stuff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-86382005293672673232011-07-25T13:53:58.513-07:002011-07-25T13:53:58.513-07:00send an e-mail to:
cultrecoverypullman@gmail.com....send an e-mail to:<br /><br />cultrecoverypullman@gmail.com.<br /><br />They will help you get into touch with someone to talk to.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-52570531475883632762011-07-20T12:39:07.209-07:002011-07-20T12:39:07.209-07:00This isn't a safe place to post personal infor...This isn't a safe place to post personal information to arrange a private meeting, but perhaps I can still help. The best way to leave LFF is to just stop going and stop meeting with members there. Don't try to explain your reasons for leaving, just go. I would also recommend some books for you to help fortify your resolve to leave and to help in your healing. They are: The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, Tired of Trying to Measure Up, and Soul Repair. All three are written by Jeff Van Vonderen. There are many other books on spiritual abuse out there, but I think these are some of the best. <br />I am praying for you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-53691274292795997112011-07-15T18:12:14.642-07:002011-07-15T18:12:14.642-07:00Is there a way I can talk with someone privately a...Is there a way I can talk with someone privately about how to get out????Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-87482528900191697862011-07-03T11:56:49.406-07:002011-07-03T11:56:49.406-07:00re: "Of course, I no longer believe god, or t...re: "Of course, I no longer believe god, or the bible and least of all church leaders."<br /><br />That comment is what motivates me to spread the news of the wrongs caused by LFF. This should go without saying but.... People should look beyond LFF when searching out the true Christian God.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-48824313618269228232011-06-13T19:43:29.839-07:002011-06-13T19:43:29.839-07:00Quite simply put, for some of us, wounds heal but ...Quite simply put, for some of us, wounds heal but the scars remain for life.<br /> <br />There are some people in that organization that will never change. Some are addicted to the power they perceive they have, and some can not separate their identities from LFF. And quite frankly some are complete assholes who would derive their sense of self from belittling anyone who is not of LFF, or worse who walked away.<br /> <br />For those who pray for this blog to be shut down, or make assanine comments about being picked last, why bother? Are you so threatened by this gathering of abused souls? Or maybe, just maybe, this blog causes you to ask the hard questions. You know the questions the "leadership" doesn't want you to ask. Or have they brainwashed you all into believing this is persecution like Paul suffered. <br /><br />As for me, writing my story helped those wounds become scars. Telling my story helped me realize that there was nothing wrong with me and if your bible is true, then I was created EXACTLY as your god wished me to be. <br />Of course, I no longer believe god, or the bible and least of all church leaders. It is all abused to give power to a few, at the cost of many.<br /><br />It is truly sad that LFF's legacy will be the carnage in its wake. All to elevate a few.Gene Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-2093565191221610452011-05-07T11:12:36.010-07:002011-05-07T11:12:36.010-07:00"sounds like someone got picked last on the s..."sounds like someone got picked last on the schoolyard"<br /><br />Leadership excluded, many of the people who frequent LFF did get picked last at the school yard, its the reason their self-esteem is low enough to get trapped into going to LFF.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-67771242655691264702011-05-07T09:49:35.937-07:002011-05-07T09:49:35.937-07:00"Sounds like someone got picked last on the s..."Sounds like someone got picked last on the schoolyard. :-)"<br /><br />Your posts shows your true colors when you make fun of someone based on an unproven assumption you have rather than making a substantive reply. This is Bulverism at its worst.<br /><br />You should probably get ahold of currentlffer to learn how to make a respectful reply.<br /><br />With that said, it IS a formal ministry training center and it should be no surprise that they emphasize and promote formal training for ministry. <br /><br />Sure there there are probably many people who judge ministry jobs better than lay jobs. If they didn't they wouldn't want to be in ministry training. What is more relevant is if the leadership of LFF judged their flock in this way? I don't know the answer to this.<br /><br />Telling someone that formal ministry is better for them is great if they are called to the ministry. If they are not called, it can be a disaster. <br /><br />When I was at LFF the people who lived off of the workers money were held by some to be in higher regard than those who worked, but that is a pitfall in many ministry training centers who emphasize formal ministry training. When encouraging people to make a jump into ministry it is easy to stumble into the pitfall of putting down laywork. I am not saying it is right but it is what it is.<br /><br />Thank you currentlffer for making a respectful reply to the 5/5 postAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-71050267999068926862011-05-06T17:03:05.243-07:002011-05-06T17:03:05.243-07:00Sounds like someone got picked last on the schooly...Sounds like someone got picked last on the schoolyard. :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-1796667423842281712011-05-06T12:31:43.533-07:002011-05-06T12:31:43.533-07:00A slight distaste for real world jobs? Absolutely!...A slight distaste for real world jobs? Absolutely! When I was at LFF, there was little encouragement for pursuing our callings - probably because if we had, we would have left the area. So, where that left people to work was at any job open in the area - Karl advised people to take 9 to 5 jobs so that they could be involved in service and ministry during the other hours of their days. Often, our jobs had nothing to do with our unique giftings and abilities, or with our desires and fulfillment. It was considered high honor to be asked to become an LFF employee, and the pastors especially were considered to be the cream of the crop. The reverence and adulation given to pastors and their children spoke more highly than anything else when it came to job value.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-38620550066152252252011-05-06T10:38:22.773-07:002011-05-06T10:38:22.773-07:00Every single pastor, minister, and lay leader at L...Every single pastor, minister, and lay leader at LFF has real-world employment on the side. I've never gotten the impression that real jobs were frowned upon. And I have always rejoiced when a friend finds employment, especially in these hard times.Current LFFernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-11499227290583231162011-05-05T22:00:18.963-07:002011-05-05T22:00:18.963-07:00Did anyone else notice a slight distaste for real ...Did anyone else notice a slight distaste for real world jobs when attending LFF? I know Pastor Joe had to do a little "tent-making," but my general feeling there was that a calling outside of the formal ministry was inferior than calling to formally serve a church body. <br /><br />Perhaps this was just a conception I had based on the people I knew who frequented LFF. Perhaps not. Any thoughts? If this was a generally accepted view, have they perhaps changed their theology in this regard?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15589025.post-42052412764918862502011-03-26T00:17:37.043-07:002011-03-26T00:17:37.043-07:00why did you leave?why did you leave?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com