suggested reading
I suggest you read the book Twisted Scriptures. It is available on Amazon.com and Half.com.
The editorial review:
Leaders of many religious groups (even including several mainstream churches) are twisting the Scriptures to subtly coerce cooperation from their members. In the process, personalities are changed and lives ruined. Mary Alice Chrnalogar is a deprogrammer with an international reputation. Chrnalogar reveals how classic mind control techniques are used to systematically seduce followers into total obedience. Twisted Scriptures: A Path To Freedom From Abusive Churches shows readers how to tell when churches are suppressing freedom of speech, intimidating followers, and distorting the Bible. Twisted Scriptures is invaluable as a self-help guide and as a tool for families and friends to free loved ones from destructive groups.
For those who have attended Living Faith Fellowship, the first chapter will be eerily familiar. For those who are attending currently, this will give you a heads up on what to be aware of and look out for.
Read the first chapter free on amazon.com. You will be amazed.
23 comments:
I have read that book. It really will give you chills if you ever went there. (JCD program, carpenter series)...you get the picture
I just read the first chapter on Amazon....creepy!!! It is almost word for word what I would describe my experience as.
I don’t know why any one would listen to the cries of people obviously controlled by their bitterness, and rage toward church structure. If you honestly want to know go for yourself. Who where the people that criticized Jesus? The religious people... I wouldn’t regard anything these people say/write as fact, seeing how there title shows their purgative to destroy a church that is fighting for the same cause as so many Christians out there. "That none shall parish but all have eternal life." If you want truth go and find out for yourself. Think twice before you speak against a church with a mission statement such as theirs. Everyone will give an account for what you have said and done while on earth. I wouldn’t want to stand before Christ and have him call me Saul and ask why I persecuted His church! Know the truth for yourself.
Did you mean prerogative genius?
yea I did, a spelling error doesnt make the truth go away though.
Apparently you believe what they write as their mission, but you don't want to believe what this blog, the voice of many, says. Way to go!
God will bless those who bless him. Why is Living Faith Fellowship shrinking so quickly? Because hundreds of people are wrong? Think about that.
"God will bless those who bless him. Why is Living Faith Fellowship shrinking so quickly? Because hundreds of people are wrong? Think about that."
HAHA your baising your opinion on if its doctrinally sound baised on the size of the church... you should go join the muslims then because they are the fastes growing religion in the world!! Numbers mean nothing, maybe people are leaving because they listen to the "sauls" of the world rather then search out truth for themselves. Its amazing what some rumors can do huh? I'll im saying is I think its important as christians we fight for the common goal not bite eachother in the back over little things. they are making followers of Jesus and people are getting saved. THEY ARE ON THE SAME TEAM.
Finally, it appears someone has the wherewithal to speak the truth and it seems, as always, the truth hurts. Obviously, the people who maintain this site have a common goal; get the truth out there and keep other people from being hurt. I found nothing in my reading that in any way attempts to drive anyone away from Christ. Any innocent bystander could see that those who write here are hurt and looking to prevent the hurt they feel from taking hold on others. And then you, brazen reader, find your salt and throw it in their wounds. How big of you; judging in the very way those they speak of judged. You sit there, think, and all you come up with is some far-off comparison to Saul.
You say, “Know the truth for yourself.” Know what truth for yourself? It appears that you sympathize with the church these bloggers speak of, and that is noble. But take a second and think; the hurt these writers speak of is real. You trivialize the pain they have felt at the hands of the institution you defend as if it never happened. Yet, as you freely admit in your comment "hundreds of people are wrong." Wrong about what: that the hurt they feel is real? How foolish of them, that is not hurt, it is delusion.
Perhaps you can defend the actions of said church, but to deny that these people are hurt is a terrible mistake. After reading your asinine comment and its ensuing rebuttals I truly question both your mental capacity to form an argument, and your argument itself. I cannot deduce the point of your comments. Are you trying to say, "These people are crazy, their pain is not real?" I see no persecution of any church, only a group of people relating their hurts.
Why do you laugh at the hurting? --->"HAHA your baising your opinion on if its doctrinally sound baised on the size of the church." You laugh and in the same argument you draw yet another comparison to Saul. It seems to me that Saul attacked and laughed at the misfortunes of the hurting Christians. You do the same. Why? What are you trying to prove? I am at a loss here; I cannot find your point. I acknowledge your efforts to defend your church. But take a look at the pain. When did Jesus inflict pain on those who sought Him? You blame the writings of these people on bitterness and rage. I see neither; I see true hurt and real attempts to overcome pain. A pain inflicted by a church and people who call that pain persecution, as if those who feel that pain are in fact lying. Come on, catch a clue, you are hurting the hurt. Again, your defenses are noble but your methods and arguments invoke serious questions, even from me, someone who never attended the church in question.
[Also, on a personal note, I have a small piece of advice. When you write an argument, use the spell-check feature. It will make you look smarter. It was very hard for me to reply to you and quote you. I had to put “baising” in my post; running my fingers down a chalkboard would have been easier. Your misspellings show haste and a serious lack of a formal education; or at the very least, an inability to learn that which your educators taught. It is like you are trying to argue a case in the Supreme Court in your pajamas; it doesn’t work. This is not a personal attack on you, in fact, I respect your attempts at defending your church. I just want you to look better next time you put your opinion out on paper.]
This is amazing. I entered your blog through the post "Lost." I related with the posts, and thought that you had been though the same things that I have. I was sexually abused as a child. I also related to the post called "tonight." it wasn't until I read your other parts of you blog that I realized that it was about a church experience.
when I read the comments above I was crushed. I am not nor have I ever been religions. but when I read this I never felt that anyone was trying to ruin a church group but instead express emotion and hurt. instead of helping with the healing process you have accused these people of trying to ruin you when It was not an attack in the first place. this seems to me to be a typical response of religious groups pointing a finger at the hurting. that is why I will never be religious.
to those of you who are writing this I can sympathize with your feelings though not your situation. I will be a reader.
It is truly sad, when those who are trying to defend a church that has caused so much pain and suffering of obviously many, inadvertently turns those they are trying to "save" away from "religion" altogether. They claim they are trying to reach the lost, when in fact, anyone who is searching for answers, is only being turned off. Since leaving this church, I have realized that often times, it is rather the unsaved or unchurched that are the most compassionate. Shouldn't it be the other way around? I often wonder. If our desire is to be more Christ-like, then we need to be more compassionate, not defensive. We also need to be more willing to listen and see the hurt, even if we are the ones causing the affliction. If you are going to claim that you are a follower of Christ, at least make a good effort to appear as one. After all, the best way to draw someone to Christ, is by example.
The writer of this chapter clearly spent a lot of time going to LFF. I can't believe how exact that first chapter is to my experience. It is sad to think of how many wasted opportunities and experiences there were waiting for "oversight approval." If you have not been to LFF, know that the chapter you get to read describes exactly what happens at LFF. If you have been, or even are currently at LFF, nothing more needs to be said.
A note to the person accusing those on this site of being "religious people, ...who will have to stand before Jesus to give an account for what we have said and done." The way I look at it, so will you. I just hope I can be forgiven for the things I said and did at LFF that, in effect, has caused a great deal pain and suffering to a lot of people. I don't know if you go to LFF or not, but by your response you are either well aquainted with LFF or are in a similar situation, and for that I am truely sorry. To be so narrow minded and think that your position, or the position of the church is always the right one is very dangerous. I spent a lot of time at LFF doing things I am no longer proud of. I helped push and prod people "into Jesus," thinking I was helping. I know now that was not always the case. The evidence is in the destroyed lives of individuals and families who at one time sacrificed their lives for LFF. LFF always talks about fruit. Look at the long term fruit that has been come from all of the time and money spent in that place. Before accusing others of throwing stones, maybe you should look at where you are standing and decide if you really want to be judged based on what you and those at your "church structure," are pushing. Maybe the way you and your "structure" do things in life is not the only way to do it. Maybe there are those out there who really are trying to pursue a meaningful relationship with Jesus, and have found their growth stunted by that wonderful "mission statement," you so elegantly spoke of. Hopefully those who read through this blog will be able to find the path that can help lead them out of the condemnation and bondage to which many of us writing have understood for so long.
Whatever path they take i hope that it doesn't lead to lff because like you said you hurt a lot of people and i hope you and your church are judged accordingly for your disgusting actions and repulsing attidues
Maybe if you had truly read and understood what the person before you had written, you might have realized that this person has since left LFF because of the brainwashing and manipulation. And most likely have confessed their sins and have already been forgiven. So I would be careful about including this person in your gross generalization of the church when you say "you and your church". It is quite obvious that this person no longer identifies with this church nor calls it his/her own. You obviously jump at the chance to throw stones, without comprehending the full picture that they were trying to paint. Maybe you should remove the boulder from your own eye before pointing it out in someone else's. I don't know, it just seems like the biblical thing to do.
I am another person who heard of this book through another “dissenter.” I can say that it really took me aback. I was a little skeptical, because I felt like I didn’t fit the profile. But as I read on I felt like someone has been reading my mail. It sounded all to familiar. I highly recommend this book to anyone. Although it has some redundancy in the book and it isn’t written really well – it is very informative. And I can say that it has helped me understand – if you will – what was done to me at lff, and is still going on there. Because when I left, I wasn’t so sure that I was in the right. I just knew that I couldn’t stay there. Truthfully my head was spinning a little bit at first. This book, and other people who cared for me were able to explain why some people are manipulative leaders. This book has helped the healing process immensely.
I just went and checked this book at at the library I work at and opened it to this quote:
"Instill Fear of Negative Information to Gain Control:
...teach the discipled that any negative or critical words are probably sinful.
Teach them to fear those "sins" so greatly that they will react forcfully and irrationally toward anyone (family, friend, fellow Christian) who dares suggest that their group might be making a mistake in any of its teachings"
This sounds alot like "don't touch the Lord's annointed". It is a circular reasoning that says that "we are right" and because we are right we are always right. To question us is to incur the wrath of God, because we are right. It is one of those things that makes it impossible to have a different opinion (ie, freedom to think).
A major break through for me happened about ten years ago. I was taking lunch behind the K house when I saw the pastor for the K house come out. I started to get all up in arms. "there's that evil man who is leading everyone to hell!" He was pro abortion and homosexuality, he was against everything I (as a member of LFF) believed in! It suddenly occurred to me that this man honestly thought he was doing the right thing. That made me ask in my notebook "Jesus, if you were here right now, would you be a Republican?" I know, what a scandalous sacreligeous thought!!! But the funny thing is that Jesus didn't scold me for having it. In fact I got a clear "NO!" from Him. He also said "I wouldn't be a Democrat either." He didn't join parties. This was a major change in thoughts for me. I was a Pat Robertson delegate to the state convention!! OH MY GAWD! You mean I can be a Christian and not a Republican. I have learned that I can carry on a conversation with God and I don't have to hear the LFF world view. God still speaks if we will listen.
Anyway, thanks for the book. I think I will get much from it.
to the person who says we are the "religious people," The Bible says that "you will know them by their fruit." Let's look at the fruit of lff...how many kids are now either pregnant, drunk all the time, have stds, on drugs, in mental institutions, will never go to church again let alone believe in God because of what we went through at lff? How many families actually have kids they raised in lff that don't have scars from being told that because they were kids they were not allowed to be trusted? How many parents got kicked out of membership for things like quitting their job at the church so they could put food on the table, or allowing their kids to buy a cd that "five fold" deemed inappropriate or disagreeing with a pastor? Do you know that I can think of only two families whose kids are all still serving God? TWO! That's it! lff's glory days were for their own glory. Don't tell me "go for yourself" I was there for years and you don't know what it was like. This is not a bitterness thing, but I haven't been there for years and I am still dealing with issues because of things that happened. So, that's their fruit, what's yours?
well, there are a lot more than two kids of the church still serving God. They are just serving God in other places. Most all of them have issues with trust, especially of churches and church leadership, but many have found faith apart from LFF that is strong.
Yes, there are a lot of others who want nothing to do with God and want everything to do with whatever fun and sin they can find in the world. In the end unfortunately their parents will have to stand before God in account for how they raised their kids. But, far more of the responsibilty will lie on the leadership of the church and the school. It is very sad.
I still know some of the kids who grew up in the church. I knew a few of them well. I asked one of them "if you could go back and do your childhood over, would you?" Their answer was something to the effect of: "no, all that i went through made me who I am today. The kids who went through hell with me are my best friends today. I wouldn't do it over but I would never wish it on another person in a million years." This person is serving God at another church and doing ok.
You said "...how many kids are now either pregnant, drunk all the time, have stds, on drugs, in mental institutions,"
Can you tell us how many? Also, pregnant is not necessarily a bad thing! I assume you mean out of wedlock (which is something God can still work through). I don't think that any of these will condemn anyone. It will make life more difficult, but it is not the end.
You also said they "will never go to church again let alone believe in God because of what we went through at lff?". It is easy to equate knowing God with going to church. I believe that the Truth will cut through all of the BS that we put on the children and will speak to the hearts of everyone. God's Word will not return void. I believe that everyone of the pcsers know God in their heart of hearts and regardless of what they call God, he will touch their hearts in love.
Another interesting book "Prophets of Psychoheresy I" by Martin Bobgan has an in depth study of the psychology theories of Dr. Lawrence Crabb (remember the volitional, emotional, rational, and personal circles), Dr. Paul Meier, Dr. Frank Minirth and Dr. Gary Collins as well as a chapter on Psychological Cults. Get ready for a very detailed read. Highly recomended for those who got caught up "Enslaving the Gospel to Psychology." yet another great chapter.
Postscript for Prophets of Psychoheresy I: God does not choose who will enter the Kingdom of heaven by their Psychological Profile in fact he uses the most unexpected people and sometimes even the most sinful to do his very will. We must choose to put people into leadership positions in a church not based on Psychological Profiles but based on God's leading and the outward fruits of the spirit expressed by his servants.
When I was in College I was searching for a roomate and because of my commitment to psychological profiling I would always glance at the interior condition of the car the potential canidate drove. If the car was a mess I would not choose this person because I would assume that would be the same way they would keep their house and maybe even a sign of their messy spiritual state! I told this to a pastor not associated with LFF and his answer was a revelation. He asked if I had ever considered in my prayers to find the right roomate that God might want me to have that messy roomate. Maybe my potential to grow spiritually could be accelerated. Wow! You see God looks at the inner man or woman. He knows that it takes all types of people to express his Goodness in the Kingdom of God. If we based all of our choices of friends, roomates, spouses, and leaders in all positions on Psychological profiles we might lead a very onesided life never getting to experience the wonderful variety of expressions of love Gods people have for him.
My prayer is that we always follow God's will and we don't try to relate to God and others in a psychological system created by man in order to control the very types of people we associate with. God Bless You!
Postscript for Prophets of Psychoheresy I: God does not choose who will enter the Kingdom of heaven by their Psychological Profile in fact he uses the most unexpected people and sometimes even the most sinful to do his very will. We must choose to put people into leadership positions in a church not based on Psychological Profiles but based on God's leading and the outward fruits of the spirit expressed by his servants.
When I was in College I was searching for a roomate and because of my commitment to psychological profiling I would always glance at the interior condition of the car the potential canidate drove. If the car was a mess I would not choose this person because I would assume that would be the same way they would keep their house and maybe even a sign of their messy spiritual state! I told this to a pastor not associated with LFF and his answer was a revelation. He asked if I had ever considered in my prayers to find the right roomate that God might want me to have that messy roomate. Maybe my potential to grow spiritually could be accelerated. Wow! You see God looks at the inner man or woman. He knows that it takes all types of people to express his Goodness in the Kingdom of God. If we based all of our choices of friends, roomates, spouses, and leaders in all positions on Psychological profiles we might lead a very onesided life never getting to experience the wonderful variety of expressions of love Gods people have for him.
My prayer is that we always follow God's will and we don't try to relate to God and others in a psychological system created by man in order to control the very types of people we associate with. God Bless You!
re: "I wouldn’t want to stand before Christ and have him call me Saul and ask why I persecuted His church!"
Jesus actually said "Saul, why do you persecute ME?"
LFF is NOT Christ. I don't see why that is so hard to understand.
Also to Trent Leone, I post anonymously to protect my family from LFF.
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