Saturday, October 01, 2005

An e-mailed response to the previous post

I apologize in advance as this became rather lengthy rather quickly. I think you will find it relevant in response to the previously e-mailed question. I read the last post and could not help but respond. This blog has been very helpful for me in naming and dealing with my pain. But no post has required a response of me until now. And so, to whoever you are with the questions…You are right, no church is perfect, churches are run by people and therefore will always have flaws. As to the vagueness, there are specific issues all over the blog. Perhaps they lack the gory details, but they are there, you just have to see them. If I had the ability I could walk you through the whole blog with a highlighter showing you the causes of people’s pain. It seems the administrators here have chosen not to relate one time instances or many detailed descriptions because by most measures it would be trivial.

If people were to recount the detailed interactions and certain instances that caused the departure of anyone; it would take hundreds if not thousands of pages. Yet that desire for details is something that is inherently wrong with LFF. It is driven by information, and that information only flows one way. There are numerous weekly and monthly meetings to discuss the information and sin in the lives of sheep. But, this is pointless, it is a waste of all of our time to sit here and argue about what kinds of details are passed along about sheep to “shepherds.”

So perhaps you cannot see the specifics here and that is fine, allow me to help your search. As you can tell from reading, the most common topics are these; spiritual abuse, control, abuse of authority for personal gain, arrogance of leadership, and failure of the pastors to accept any point of view besides the their own. It is easy to miss all of these things going on around you; after all they are being done in the name of God. At times I missed them too.

Frankly, asking for intimate details is a bit of an odd request given that there are obviously an overwhelming amount of people that are hurt and only now finding healing. Whether you realize it or not, you are in a fact asking victims of abuse to recount the explicit details of that abuse. Is the pain not good enough, not real enough, must you hear the intricacies too?

I realize that for some it is hard to believe without unequivocal proof. So I will oblige you with some of the details of my own experience. Those in current leadership will deny this; again chalking it up, like usual, to gross misinterpretations on my part due to sin in my life. I will be the first to tell you that is no news; I am a sinner. Anyone who says they have no sin in their life is nothing more than a delusional liar, thus a sinner. So writing this off because of one’s sins is completely irrelevant, a shoddy argument at best. I say that only because this is the first route taken by the pastors to discredit the truth. However, it would be a waste of all of our time for me to sit here and make up some story about the church.

I went to LFF for nearly twenty-five years. Born and raised, a true product of the church. I have been through it all there. I have been yelled at, screamed at, and even cussed at by the former and current pastors. All this in the name of God and “righteous anger.” Remember, God only chastens those He loves. Oh, and my countenance I was always getting an earful for that. If I wasn’t smiling, I was sinning and so the yelling came again. People who have been around there long enough constantly said there are double standards and this one is classic. How many times have I been chewed out for my frown by the frowning pastor’s wife? Countless.

I saw my best friend’s family publicly humiliated for the sins of their son. These sins were the subject of a special members meeting that we were all required to attend. The poor choices of a teenager became the topic of discussion for the evening. The family was publicly stripped of their leadership responsibilities. They ended up moving away from Pullman and we were all forbidden to talk to them. The church had forced their own out; those who had given so much were ostracized by the leadership. For what? This tore me up inside, my best friend was gone and I could not talk to him because he was a “sinner.” Good thing Jesus talked to sinners or we would all be lost.

I continued to attend with my family but hated the fact that my parents were always doing church stuff. I rarely saw my parents as they worked for the church and were either working, ministering, or in their free time assisting the pastors with projects around their house. The church said family comes before ministry but they required their members to put family after church. This was never said but as every preacher loves to tell us, “Actions speak louder than words.” This was not just my family; the same was true of all of my friends’ families. Families always took a back seat to church. I was troubled by this and countless other hypocrisies.

At 16 I told the senior pastor that I did not want to go to the Christian School any more because we didn't have a football team and I wanted to play football. He replied by crawling across the top of his desk in a screaming fit of rage. He kicked me out of my house, right in front of my parents without even consulting them. I looked at my parents and they said nothing, we all knew to question his judgment, asinine as it was, was never tolerated. I spent two nights at a friend’s house before coming home and begging to go back to the school. Not because I wanted to, because I had to.

I hated the school, hated the church and hated the system I was trapped in. I was told how to walk, how to talk, how to act, and what to think. The growing number of discrepancies I saw caused me to never take anything at face value. And so I inwardly questioned. Questioned policies, questioned double standards, questioned the godliness of the tirades of the pastor, and questioned this false reality the church had painted for me. I knew questioning was never acceptable but I could not stand it. I could not take these thoughts tearing apart my insides anymore. So I began to ask but never received answers. Instead of being told why the way things were the way they were, I was labeled as a rebel.

I was then constantly in trouble for the tiniest things. Things that were not even issues garnered the wrath of the pastors. I once wore my hat backwards while I was shooting baskets. Like it or not, it is easier to make a shot if you are not hitting the bill of your hat every time you shoot the ball. Well, someone saw me with my hat turned backwards and reported me to the senior pastor. He then brought me in front of everyone at members meeting and while the current senior pastors watched silently, he yelled at me, hit me in the face, and banned me from wearing a hat ever again on LFF property. Apparently, he decided backwards hats were rebellious and therefore, to him, I was rebelling.

Suddenly, everything about me was being judged, the clothes I wore, the people I talked to, even the Christian music I listened to. Yes, Christian music. The senior pastor even preached a message one Sunday saying in front of the entire congregation that he was angered by the fact that some of the people who grew up here had gone to a Christian rock concert in Spokane. I was in college but I had to beg for his forgiveness for being rebellious and going to a Third Day concert. Unfortunately I was a little early, no one in the church yet approved of the music they now sing in worship services.

It became too much, I hated that place and I could not take it anymore. I began doing what I wanted and not telling anyone about it. But they found out; I was ex-communicated from the church. The current senior pastor and an assistant came to my apartment and told me I was no longer allowed to speak to my family, my friends, or anyone associated with LFF because of “un-repentance” in my life. Was I sinning? Emphatically yes. But sin was not tolerated so they wanted nothing to do with me. My friends were told, “Don’t talk to him; he made his own bed now let him lie in it.” And so it was, for three years I had almost no contact with my family and all those I grew up with; it was not allowed.

And as quickly as it began, it ended. I wanted my family back and my life without God was a wreck. I returned to my home late one evening and once again found God. It was perfect, innocence at last. I loved everything about Him, and was enamored by anything that had to do with my new found Savior. I asked forgiveness of many people for my rebellion and for believing lies about them. My joy was complete

As the school year approached, I was asked if I wanted to be a JCD. I said, “No.” But “no” was the wrong answer. I was asked to meet with the soon to be campus pastor who strongly encouraged me to become a JCD. I was still not convinced so the current senior pastor met with me and again strongly encouraged me to join. And I did. Within a month I hated it. I was in trouble for not filling out reports or not spending enough time doing this or that. The system had taken hold again; backbreaking rules replaced true love and an innocent desire for God. Then all at once the joy I had vanished.

As I became more involved I was shocked. The things that had troubled me as a youth did in fact happen. I asked forgiveness for what I thought were juvenile misconceptions on my part. I sought forgiveness for being critical of the double standards, forgiveness for thinking of the pastors as arrogant, and forgiveness for assuming the anger (verbal abuse) that had driven me away was ungodly. Yet, all these things were still happening; I was led to believe I needed to ask forgiveness for the sins against me. I became confused and the closer I looked the more I saw. I brought these issues -- which I could give you even more specifics but it would overwhelm you -- to people in leadership and to my surprise, some of them agreed. But the senior pastors felt otherwise.

Then it snapped, I saw many of my friends start to leave the church for the exact things that had troubled me in the past. I tried to point out why they were leaving to the new pastors but it was useless. I had no voice and that which deeply troubled me was to them, untrue. So I opted for anonymity. I drafted the letter that appears on the very bottom of this site and sent it to the pastors. (I was a little surprised when I found it here on this blog, but I am glad someone is making use of it.) It became a witch hunt. And after several weeks I came forward and claimed my previously unsigned correspondence. This led to several very long meetings that went absolutely nowhere. I did receive an apology from the senior pastors though…”We are sorry you feel this way, but how you feel is not accurate.” That was a first, up to that point in my life I had never been told of my errant ways in an apology. I was made to feel guilty and I myself apologized for writing the letter. Which in retrospect was a mistake; I said nothing untrue and was only trying to stop the efflux of members.

After a few more pointless meetings, I left. Since then, I have seen hundreds of people leave for the exact same things I tried to point out; control, manipulation, double standards, and abuse of authority. But what grieves me most are the ones that really tried the ones who really “pressed in.” My friends on the worship team and in the CCF band were forced out for not being submissive to someone’s personal idea of holiness. For not choosing the “songs God wanted to hear for worship.” For refusing to admit, and I quote, “LFF is the best church in world.” For questioning when what they heard from God was not what their pastor was telling them. For singing songs in worship that God’s song selector had not yet approved or had a chance to sing on a Sunday. Apparently the songs God wants to hear on a Friday must be sung on a Sunday first. He seems to like a larger audience to introduce potential worship service classics. For many reasons people have been pushed out and innocence destroyed. These reasons coupled with the inability of the senior pastors, past and present, to accept any differing point of view or minor criticism from anyone has driven a host of people from LFF.

And so here a growing number of the departed come, expressing their pains, searching for God in the mess “His anointed” made for them. And the thing that hurts them beyond what you can even imagine is the fact that the church they loved and poured so much into wants nothing to do with them. Its leaders label the pain, as generalized complaining and ungodly criticism rooted in sin. The confused lives of the departed are held up as “I told you so’s,” aiming to force others into submission. The leadership thinks they know best and if you feel otherwise be prepared to pay. They say they have changed but it is only appearance. There is still the underlying spirit of manipulation and control and it is still crushing people’s souls.

I apologize for the long e-mail and can only imagine the varying interpretations it will get if you post it. I am not angry at anyone or anything that happened to me. I do not blame any of my actions, both in youth and adulthood, on anyone. I made my own choices and so did those who hurt and manipulated me. I have forgiven them and moved on. It is not anger I feel toward them, instead I pity them in their crippling inability to see the pain they have inflicted and continue to inflict on many. I hope by giving you some of the details you requested you will see the topics on this site are in fact real. There are many more details but I have already gone on far too long. I know there are those who will interpret this as bitterness and that is fine. Sometimes it is hard to infer the proper meaning through words on a page. I cannot control the way this is received and can only hope somehow, someway it will help someone.

28 comments:

Anonymous said...

i have hesitated to post or comment as of yet. i feel that i cannot express my true feelings or emotions without revealing myself, for it would not be hard to do. however, as i fought to hold back my tears and watery eyes while reading certain parts of the post...i wanted to say something. it is truly aweful what LFF has done to people, my family, my friends, myself as well. i am truly heartbroken and have fought depression since i was in high school, yes, due to the place i was raised. the place that claimed to be enlightening and uplifting and life changing...but really just tore me apart. but for certain reasons, i can't completely break ties. i rips me apart inside to know that i will most likely never be totally free. i now live constantly haunted by actions and events that took/take place at that church. and not being able to have a real voice kills me. maybe a small semi anonymous voice is just what i need.

anyways, sorry to ramble, i just felt like breaking some silence after that last post. i know our experiences differ, but i do share your pain, as well as everyone else's. i just wish there was more i could do or say...intsead i sit here knowing things may never change.

Anonymous said...

that story makes my blood boil! WHY DO PEOPLE STILL FALL VICTIM TO THIS??? I just don't get it. Those pastors must be some of the evilest people alive.

Anonymous said...

This site has truly described I believe how so many felt growing up in the school/church. I too grew up there and am grateful to my mom who kept me somewhat sheltered from all of the control. I know my mom paid the price for it. However she was a listening ear to so many.
I feel very sad for the numbers of kids that were mistreated and I wish I could have been there more to lend a helpful hand. I too felt like I lost a brother when whom you were referring to was shunned and humiliated. There is something wrong when you have to sneak to a park and look over your shoulder just to make sure noone was around just so you can talk to your FRIEND and let them know that someone still cared.
To all who are still struggling, please know that there is still life, love and true purity in God. There are also real relationships that came out of that school/church as I have personally felt over this summer. I guess most of all I hope everyone can find true and unconditional love and acceptance as I know so many didn't feel they had. God bless you all! A former PCS'er

Anonymous said...

"And the thing that hurts them beyond what you can even imagine is the fact that the church they loved and poured so much into wants nothing to do with them. Its leaders label the pain, as generalized complaining and ungodly criticism rooted in sin."
That is, for certain, the most painful part about it. I don't want to call the years that I spent at that curch wasted years. But it often feels that way.
I was at the meeting you refer to in your story. The one in which you were slapped in the face by a ring clad hand, all because you were rebellious. I hope you will accept this as my apology for not having the guts to stand up to that man and for not protecting you.Slapping a child in front of a crowd...yes it happened, and it was wrong. Your personal sharing means a lot to me since I know who you are. Honestly, I had always wondered about you. I was in many meeting in which you were discussed in front of many people who had nothing to do with your situation, all in the name of ministry. I hope you can forgive me and know that on my way out of that place I fought with the system and was no longer considered supportive. That, after years and years of supporting a sinful lifestyle being lived by the pastors. As soon as I disagreed I was "banished" from the high level I had attained through my service and support of sin.
I hope some of that made sense to you and all the people who are reading. Coming from someone who was high in the food chain, what went on and still goes on under the new pastors is sin and it is wrong.

Anonymous said...

I am the person who wrote the email with the questions about the files and the specific examples. I did not actually want specific examples of the painful experiences, but wondered why none were on here. Now I understand. Please forgive me for asking why there were no specific examples of ickiness.

Thank you for sharing these things with me, about your expereinces and the files. ALthough it makes me sad, it also makes me greatful that I have never been through these things.

I am sad and amazed at what has gone on at my church. Hitting a child in front of a group of people?!?! Or hitting a child at all. I would have gotten up and punched that guy out.


God Bless you all.

Anonymous said...

"I would have gotten up and punched that guy out."

sorry, but no. you woudn't have.

Anonymous said...

Hmmmm...it was "un-repentance" that caused them to chase you away. By that token they should be chasing themselves away. Oh wait, that must be another one of those double standards you were referring to.

Anonymous said...

You have written so elegantly. I was there, too. We were all part of a rotten system, Babylon, "confusion" as we were reminded so many times. Yet I was struck by the sincerity and lack of bitterness in your post.

Your parents and I, and I do not know exactly who you are, were products of the 70's. We were idealists. We had big hopes and big plans that together we were furthering the Kingdom of God on earth. Raising godly families was part of that vision. My children were raised with you, no doubt about it.

The problem is that we did not understand what the Kingdom of God really is. We did not understand what the fruit of the spirit really is, and certainly our leaders did not. But it was difficult to see, to think outside of the box from within the box.

The more we were "persecuted" for being a "cult" the more we tended to band together. A seige mentality resulted. We sort of thought of ourselvews as a kind of last bastion of Christianity on the earth. I don't think we were really a cult, in the sense that it is usually intended, but we were headed that way. We were very cultish.

We did not understand how to raise and nurture our children, and what your parents were told about raising them is now flatly shown to all to be untrue, to the dismay of many children, fathers and mothers in LFF.

So, forgive me, and I know it might seem meaningless to ask and receive forgiveness in such anonymity. Forgive me if I ever rebuked you for wearing your hat backwards, or for judging you for poor decisions, or for not showing love to you in the many ways I could have, but didn't. I can only plead ignorance. Not much of a plea, really, since it is all right there in the Bible, studied and interpreted and understood by committed believers in the long centuries of church history. At LFF we thought we were standing centuries of church history on its head, because God had come to us in a special understanding.

You said it best, we are all sinners. It is only through the work of Christ in our hearts that we can be changed. We cannot change ourselves. Oh, but we thought we could, we thought we could.

Because I stood up and promised in the sight of God to raise you with your parents, to guide you, to love you, to nurture you, to be there for you. I failed, we all failed, we in fact horriblly failed our children at LFF. You should have been tenderly nurtered, and treated like little Christians until or unless you chose otherwise, but instead, you were all in fact treated like little sinners.

We believed that an extremely dysfunctional family was the model for our lives. We would have done better to read what the Bible had to say than to listen to advice, no, not advice, pronouncements of expertise. Our mistake was to swallow the idea, really, a result of our own laziness, because it was easier than searching the scriptures.

There are many hurts from LFF. Many sheep were hurt by shepherds. Many shepherds were hurt by what they were made to do to their sheep, in violation of their own conscienses and the leadings of the Holy Spirit. And worst of all, many parents will bear for the rest of their lives the scars of what they were made to do to their own families.

That is the worst sin of all, what we did to the generation to follow us. Forgive me, forgive us for sitting silently while you were unjustly confronted for trivial offenses, forgive us for allowing your joy in Christ to be snuffed out, forgive us for not allowing you to receive the benefits of living and growing in a Christian covenant community until you were in your middle teenage years. Forgive us, and see that Christ is greater than the failure of your parents and your pastors, and that living for him makes even all that we suffered in Pullman worth it.

Anonymous said...

My Dad said it best when he said we are all products of really good ministry and really really bad ministry. But how do we go back through every childhood experience and decide what was good and what was bad? It would be like trying to pick the dirt out of the mud....it's so jumbled up inside there's no way to tear it out without tearing myself up.

Barbed wire around my heart... everytime it beats, it shreds a little more...Everytime I try to get free, I bleed. Each barb is a reminder of the past abuse and ridiculousness that I too allowed myself to accept for so long. Each barb is a "bad" ministry experience and it feels like it's killing me, snuffing out all hope, all joy. Will my heart ever be able to beat freely as I worship my Lord? Or am I ruined forever? I fear if I do get free, the scars will tear worse than the barbs ever did....

I don't know what else to say, for me the anger is still there. Not for myself, but for my family. My parents, my brothers. How many missed family moments were there because my parents had to go serve leadership?? What kind of pastor requires the folding of their own sheet-like underwear and the scrubbing of their floors instead of time with family?

Thank You for Listening,

Obviously Still Healing

Anonymous said...

I recently learned about this blog and was told I wouldn't be able to stop reading. No kidding! Finally, an open environment in which thoughts can be expressed instead of quietly wispered, wondering if the wrong person will hear them. I still look over my shoulder, waiting to get in trouble for what I really think.

I am getting better, thanks to my wonderful husband. When we were dating, I sat in front of him sobbing, "you don't want to meet them, you will run far away and never what to see me again. I can't prepare you for the pain you are asking for by introducing yourself to this environment." (I was still trying to escape, even after being gone from Pullman for two years.) Thankfully, he was raised to be confident in himself and was not persuaded in any manner to be pulled into LFF. In fact, he kept me from being pulled back in. Some days he just looks at me and says, "oh, yeah, Pullman, I forgot." "I am not them, you won't get in trouble for telling me what you feel," then he just waits in silence until I start talking, saying what is honest not "right."

I am learning to look at myself as a whole person, not a "project, needing to fixed." I am starting to change my self image and become more confident, realizing that I don't have a black mark across my forehead, that people like me for me, that they don't care where I came from.

Whoever you are, thank you. It has been a long time coming for an open and safe environment to chat about our experiences.

To all the PCSers that have remained friends and have moved on, that can talk and even joke about our past, but understand that it does not define our lives today - Thank You! I takes one to know one, thanks to all of you for your enduring friendship.

Anonymous said...

I'm not quite sure how, but I managed to gain some of my best friends ever by attending this church. That is about the only good memory I have of this place. But, when somebody makes a few bad decisions and a couple of wrong turns, you are promptly instructed to avoid them, don't talk to them and don't accept them, lest they think you condone their actions. I kick myself every day for abandoning one of my best friends. I thought about him nearly every day, and my better judgment told me to reach out to him, but my "oversight" told me otherwise. They said, "he made his bed, now let him lie in it." How foolish of me! Maybe if I had trusted my better judgment I could've saved him from getting in deeper and deeper into darkness, had he known he had a friend who wasn't going to give up on him. After a long while our friendship was mended, but only by the grace of God. I only wish I could've done so many things differently, been stronger and stood up against the pressure and manipulation. Again, hindsight is 20/20.

Anonymous said...

THEY LIED TO US!!!!!!

They told us when you left the first time that you had run away from home!

I remember when that happened; I was a few years behind you. I trusted them so much, and I believed they wouldn't lie. In a special chapel meeting, we all held hands in a circle with yarn in our hands. "They" said that you "had broken the chain," and "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link." The chain was the community at LFF and the weakest link was you.

I am ashamed of myself for believing them.

By the Grace of God, I am no longer at LFF.

Anonymous said...

yes, they did tell us that you chose to run away... although some of use were privy to the truth...

All in all it seems like we always knew something was going on, even from a young age, and sometimes I still feel like maybe I made it all up...because every time I opened up my mouth, it was all my fault, I was in sin, or I was not giving leadership the benefit of the doubt...

I really appreciate the comment made by the "parent" a few comments ago.... I don't need another useless 'please forgive me' ... after reading the comment, I really felt validated...
FINALLY... I am not going crazy...
WE are not going crazy. we were right all this time.. It's amazing the freedom that comes from validation.

I too have life long friends from my PCS days, friends who have stood by me in thick and thin...
and for that, I am ETERNALLY grateful. I even feel a silent bond to those with whom I have lost touch. There is no one else on earth that understands the way my mind works, the way my mind was shaped to work at an early age like you guys


Thank you

Anonymous said...

Here's another parent. Thank you for your post. I was gone by the time you were "disfellowshipped" and hoped that things would really change when PK and PS were out of the picture. I see that the mold that was created under the old leadership has continued. I am not too suprised since there are strong family ties.

Please let me speak about motivations. Like the other parent said before we really thought we were doing the right thing. We were going with the light we had. Unfortunately, we had no concept of what deep problems we were causing by following the leadership. My three children have all had to cope with negative self images since we left. The whole "spare the rod" school of discipline is sadly in error. I remember my youngest son having to be disciplined because he had a rebellious spirit! (he was only a few months old for God's sake!) I can't go back and undo the wrong. I am sorry. I wish I could.

I stood with most of you when you were dedicated too. I take those vows seriously. I too, appologize for failing you. I hope that if we meet again, I can show you the love that I really do feel for you. I also have something that most Christians are supposed to have, but rarely do - acceptance! I want you to know that in God's eyes you are perfect whole and complete exactly as you are. You don't have to change anything to be accepted by God! God loves you unconditionally.

love and blessings to you all!

(BTW, I helped to start the CCF band and was asked to leave because I was too old, so I know how the worship dept. works.)

Anonymous said...

I can totally relate to second post above this one. I too wondered if I was making stuff up at times. I really appreciate hearing everybody’s stories of what happened because like as what was said above, we knew stuff was going on but not always everything exactly and I for one was afraid to ask and be seen as “one of them” whoever the was at the time. I tell you, It wasn’t fun getting into trouble for things I didn’t do (‘cause if one or two of us “screwed up” we all paid for it) or getting in trouble for stuff I didn’t think was wrong. These stories are helping put all the pieces together for me.

I too felt some validation from the “parent’s” response. It’s nice to know that those things we all thought were wrong actually really were wrong and we weren’t crazy. I guess maybe that is where I have been struggling the most…the fact that the people who did this don’t think it was wrong and they keep on doing it. It’s nice to be acknowledged for a change that we were right all along. Maybe we didn’t make the smartest choices in trying to get our point across back then but I think people are beginning to understand why we did what we did.

Anonymous said...

the funny thing is, we were the frogs in the pot of cold water as the heat was turned up

Anonymous said...

But, at least WE noticed when it was getting warm. :)

Anonymous said...

I came to WSU to pursue a career in child development, I quickly had LFF goggles placed on my eyes. Children as young as a few months were constantly being told "OBEY" followed by a swift smack on the butt or in the face.

I went on with my degree questioning everything I was learning. I felt as if all or my professors were liberal idiots. I sought my home care leader's advise when face with writing papers on discipline. I was taught to believe that I had to stand up to the school and their gross inaccuracies of how to raise and teach children. My HCL made me write about "spare the rod spoil the child" I really and truely believed in it. So much so that several of my professors (who knew full well the harms of LFF) tried on many occasions to get me to see the wrong in such harsh corporal punishment. At one point I was asked to consider another degree and career because they feared that I might hit a child. My husband and I left LFF shortly after our May 04 wedding. You see when we started dating we made some mistakes and being trained to we confessed to our leadership. They yelled at us and told us we could never be alone together. Thankfully we used the minds that God gave us and told them "Look we already have parents, we don't need anymore. I am stepping down from being a JCD and we need to be allowed to be adults." They hated that and started pushing us out. So over a year later when we finally wed and wondered so many of our friends had turned on us and had not shown up at the wedding we knew that our time was fast approaching. We finally left after seeing a couple get married a few months after us (I had dated the guy briefly before) instantly being excelled to home care leaders. I knew the guy, I knew his BS and yet I finally saw that their attachment to a certain leadership couple aided them in their climb. That's when we knew that LFF was messed up if they could become HCL's. Oh that and having total strangers in the church come up and tell us we were sinners and our marriage would never last. Since we left we've maintained ties with a few people, a couple who have shown to be true friends (we love you). But there have been many more who have used our struggles to their gain. You see since we left we've saddley suffered two miscarriages. Word got out to some of the current members and I recieved several comments on my live journal and through email that we killed our babies because we are sinners living in bitterness and that we spread lies about LFF. To some those comments from people thought of as friends would destroy. We're thankful that we can see that they themselves are decieved and they can't hurt us any longer.

Anyways back to the children thing (sorry for the tangent). After we left LFF I pleaded with my professors to give me another chance. I explained to them that we had left LFF and cried on many of shoulders. They agreed to let me countine and to let me into the Child development lab internship. And encouraged me to seek counsel because they had seen many o' ex-lffers on the verge of suicide.

God was good to me and quickly showed me that all I had been taughted by WSU about child development was correct and I went on to being a great teacher in my internship. I still struggle though when children's behavior gets annoying the first place my mind goes to is "OBEY" SMACK. Thankfully I've never said nor done that but I fear that I might. SO for now I don't teach until I feel I am free from my past.

Sorry for rambling I just felt compelled to share from a child development prespective what LFF does to children, teens and even adults is wrong. I pray that everyone who's left LFF regardless of how "okay" you feel about your past that you seek some sort of counsel and don't feel condemmed about seeking meds to deal with the depression that may come as well.

Anonymous said...

What you are describing is the phenomenon of LFF eating its own young.

Great efforts were expended on recruiting new young people, while the long time members were trained to drive their own children into the flames. Too late, when viewing the final product of of the child rearing theories taught, no, screamed at us by leadership, did they realize that they had made an incredible mistake. Sadly, this same catastrophic vision of child rearing devastated our families, sparing not even the children and grandchildren of the top leadership, and I wish them no ill, they were victims too. I pray they can all recover their faith in Jesus Christ. It will be His Grace, not their lack of faithfulness to the Word of God, that will keep them.

When I think of things like this, it is difficult not to fantasize about torpedoing that damn yacht at Port Ludlow. Unoccupied, of course. I'm not that ruthless.

Anonymous said...

Okay, total tangent...but I've heard about the yacht at Port Ludlow. Does anyone know what kind of yacht it is--how big, etc.?

Anonymous said...

Wow, the writer several posts ago was right. This is fascinating reading.

I am also a PCS’er and since I moved away from Pullman I have made some deep lasting friendships. Yet my “old” friends are still my best friends even though hundreds of miles separate us. They understand the way I think and the reasons that I am the way I am. I was a “good” kid until my junior year at PCS. I did what the leadership wanted and I tried my best to feel what they wanted as well. When I was unsuccessful at this, I started to believe that there was something wrong with me.

Volleyball is what really made me stand up and take notice though. We had a good (relatively ) team and didn’t lose often. When we did lose, we had a big meeting and were told to repent because someone was not “right with God” and that is why we lost. I remember thinking that that was one of the stupidest things I’d ever heard. Our coach is also a big part of “the disillusionment”. Such blatant favoritism and putting down of people who were not “in” with the pastor’s kids was very frustrating to endure.

I moved away from Pullman the summer before my senior year at PCS. My parents were so supportive of me (a big change from the legalistic parenting practices discussed in above postings). My dad even went with me (I wasn’t yet 18) to get a piercing. He was proud that I was starting to create my own identity apart from the ‘clone’ that leadership wanted. Their support has made a huge difference in my life. Picture this, being able to talk with your parents rationally without fear of being punished for not having the ‘right’ opinion; radical concept I know!

I also remember thinking that our teachers were overzealous in controlling every aspect of our lives. From how we dressed to who we talked with, they was a ‘right’ way to do it all. I had a good friend who had a crush on a boy. They were constantly watched and not allowed to be alone together. I found myself in the role of inconspicuous third wheel, trying to make it okay for them to spend time together.

There are a lot of frustrations that still get to me every once in a while. I still struggle with my self image and meeting new people (try knowing exactly the same people for 17 years and then being thrust into a new school/environment), but whenever I do I focus on the friends I still have and the good memories I have (yes, there are quite a few) and count myself lucky that my parents had the foresight to leave when they did.

Oh, and unless you think me very evolved and not bitter, I get angry very with the way the leadership treated my sister. She is sick, not possessed!! She is not sick because she sinned. That mindset makes me want to inflict body damage.

Thanks for the great posts!

Anonymous said...

I am an outsider. I don't know LFF. I know some of the product of LFF, and I see more here.

I am almost at a loss for words. How heartbreaking. The focus of God is not on sin, it is on love. He took care of sin so we could live in freedom from rules. Wow. Amazing. How did they miss all of that in the Bible for so long?

Anonymous said...

You can trace the heredity of LFF back to the "Latter Rain Movement" in the 40's. It in turn came from the holiness movement. If you look at the holiness movement you see that they were more focused on being holy (and therefore focused on sin). It is not too hard to understand why LFF is as sin focused as it is.

It is also a subtle way to control. If you teach people not to trust their natural inclination, because all of us are conceived as sinners, then you can tell them how to behave.

Anonymous said...

Oh the stories we could tell! Thanks for sharing. I escaped over 10 years ago and it has taken this long (longer than 10 years) to get them out of my head. The Jaguar was a revalatory "investment" unitl it lost a hose and burned up some vlaves. Then the new revelation was to sell the car ASAP after the vehicle crew "voluntarily" replaced the engine. One cannot un-volunteer for crews (which i learned the hard way). LFF is literally a slave labor camp for the Barden clan. As Jesus said "the love of money is the root of all evil". I hadn't heard about the yacht - how nice. Maybe a biz jet next year, eh?

Keep up the good work. Truth is something God loves, even if painful. This site is very theraputic to me because i realize that all these years i have not been wrong, alone, or wierd. So few understood me. It is good to have some people who know and do understand and pray. I am thankful to Jesus that all these years i kept my faith, though there have been low points. Sadly i dont think my x wife was able to. Maybe she will find this site and take some comfort in it.

Ciao, George N. Sally

Anonymous said...

I grew up in Pullman and remember the "old" LFF building, and watched the "new" LFF building go up as well. Every time I'm in town and go past that place, I shake my head at its looming presence over Grand Avenue. Over the years, I'd heard things about LFF, but I never knew if they were true. I'd heard that members were assigned to small groups with a leader who basically told them who to date, when to date, when to marry, when to have kids; that you had to give your entire paycheck to the church, and the church would then pay you back whatever money they thought you needed to survive on for the month; I heard one member say that they had to petition the church to buy a new bed for themselves - but I just couldn't believe it. I heard about the files they kept on their members, and knew that Barden bought up all of the cheap housing on the lower end of Sunnyside hill for his followers to live in (another control method). The Bardens lived next door to a friend of mine, and I always wondered why the housing Bardon bought to rent out to his followers was so run down while he lived in a very large house with an indoor pool and had a gigantic motorhome out front, and seemed to have it all. I'm just now reading about the yacht. I also remember the LFF'ers standing outside of Smith Gym on the day in which WSU students pick up their schedules, to try to lure them to "bible study". I really wanted to help these people see the truth, but didn't think I could do anything - and I probably couldn't have. I felt like we had another Waco on our hands when the new church with bulletproof glass was built and watched all of the followers plant junipers and lay bark in front like little ants each week. It's always been a mystery to me why that church is so successful. I know the destructive effect of cult leaders on their prey and am so glad to see that some people are choosing to get out and get a voice to express what really happens in that place. It's wrong - and now that Barden Sr. has retired - after making a fat living off of the people of Pullman, it's important to get the word out about the reality of this place. Barden's probably laughing all the way to the bank - but what's important is that when I searched on LFF tonight, I found their site, and the next one listed was yours - Bravo!

Anonymous said...

First off, I appreciate the honest view from an HCL. I was at LLF for about 5 yrs in the first part of the 90's. Gradually working... yes working my way up the acceptance ladder until I got to a point were I started helping my now wife with the children's Sunday School. We taught the pre-school kids and had 15-20 little ones in our class. They were all attention starved kids. They wanted to spend time with their parents but hardly saw them because every night was spent doing "something" at the church. Even on Thursday night - supposed to be family night - I saw parents doing chores for pastor under the guise of serving leadership.
Back to Sunday school ... Part of the Sunday school morning was to have a snack time. It seemed every time we handed out a few crackers to the kids they would eat it up rather quickly. So one morning I decided to ask if they have breakfast before coming to church. Only one raised her hand. Then we asked if they breakfast on a regular basis ... maybe 1/4 of the class raised their hands. We emptied our box of crackers that was supposed to last a month that morning.
The kids of LFF were the true victims of a system where the parent craved the attention of leadership at all costs and family was second.
Being a good ladder climber, I told my HCL of the situation and was told it was not my problem these kids did not have any kind of breakfast before heading out the door. That was the final straw. I only wish now that I had enough funds to take my entire class out to breakfast that morning but we were both very poor college students. Looking back now I guess I could of counted that as my 23.3% tithe. At least it would of gone to a good cause - feed the hungary.
Shortly after the Sunday school event occur we left rather abruptly.
Yes there are some painful memories but quite a few good ones. We travel though the Pullman area once in awhile and sometime bump into LFF'ers and they act as they are trained .... don't talk to people who have left - even 13 years later. Sad but true.
The ol' Sunday school gal and I married after we left LFF. It has been a good 13 yrs so far an we expect many more!!
Kind regards, MC & CC(W)

Anonymous said...

Please come by for a visit some time. The kids eat very well these days, and the church is a great place to raise a family. Your story is tragic, but nothing stays the same over time. I am a clear-thinking parent with many close friendships at LFF, and I can honestly say that it is a wonderful place for children.

- Current LFFer

Anonymous said...

How can you honestly say that a place which teaches such bigotry, intolerance, and leads by a double standard is an okay place for kids (or anyone for that matter)?! Seriously?! I attended LFF as a college student and became very aware of how "different" people really aren't welcome there (so much for really being an example of the love of Christ) and children that didn't fit their mold were not treated kindly. Yes, I agree things can change, but when there's such intolerance to begin with.....that underlying theology doesn't go away.