A call to pray for leadership
I am from Pennsylvania and never attended this church that you speak of. I was trying to get the lyrics ,music, and history behind the song and pulled up this website. How sad. My Dad is a pastor and I grew up as a PK. Instead of constantly bashing the family, why not pray for them? Bring your prayers and concerns to Jesus. He understands and will listen. Also, the enemy works strong in a pastor's family, because he doesn't want God's message to get out. Pray for everyone involved in ministry! Pray that they will be able to stand against the enemy. We are in a spiritual battle and we need to come together in prayer!Lititz, PA
11 comments:
I left LFF over a decade ago, and I still see so much doubt in my life over people's motives, truth, God's ways, etc. I think it's something that I need to learn to be comfortable with, though. I especially have questions about spiritual gifts. A lot of what I saw concerning spiritual gifts at LFF was false and forced. We wanted so hard for it to be true that we put aside discernment, reason, and intelligence.
Editor's note, we are going to put comments here that we can't tell if they have made it onto the blog or not. Some of them may be on another part of the blog.
the editors
I have a question for everyone that left the cult. How do you know what is real anymore? I have had lots of prophesies and have seen words of knowlege, basically I have seen a lot. And a lot of it was at the cult. But how do you know what is real anymore? I question everything now. I know that Jesus is real but as far as gifts of the Holy Spirit I am confused. How can people demonstrate these gifts if they are bad people? How can light and dark reside in the same place?
If anyone has any insight please let me know.
So I finally left CCF and LLF, although I only had a few weeks left of school. It's weird, people stop calling (esp my HCL). My 'mentor/advisor' asked if I wanted to stop meeting with her. I think this is very interesting, it shows their true colors. It shows how much they truly love and care for me and how much grace and love they extend.
I was comparing CCF to Cru/Campus Crusade for Christ, I noticed how CCF doesn't have a hand in the community for people to come to know the Lord, only to come to their church.
I saw them out on the Mall handing out fliers for their Easter production, they acted like snake-oil salesmen, esp my HCL. Their only mission was to get them to CCF and LLF, not to Christ. HOW SAD!!!
I have chose to NOT attend a church that acts like this and believes in this.
Thank you for all the advice and stories. I have stopped attending LFF, CCF, and MIRROR, who knows what I'll do with all my freetime! I have been having some awesome time with God, though many days I just want to be home with my parents, friends, and home church that DOESN'T cause pain. How sad that these people cause such pain and suffering in God's name. God doesn't want this! I found some awesome verses to focus on: Joshua 1:7-9 and Romans 16:17-20 (Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. FOr they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am therefore glad on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.) The second verse I feel God gave to Paul just for LFF and CCF. They have given me great encouragement and strength to leave, realizing clearly in God's Word that LFF is NOT a good place (self-serving, good works, good speeches, but DON'T serve God). Thank you for your encouragement and advice, it was needed and greatly appreciated! I have been relearning what I have known all along but LFF changed or corrected or twisted. I have gone to another church and plan on continuing. I am just SO grateful that I heard God soon and found this blog quickly before establishing myself at LFF and being misled. Please feel free to email me regarding my next moves, (email deleted by editors). Should I write a letter stating that I have left per God's calling? Should I continue being with CCFers, ie at small groups or the CUB? Help!
Editors' note, I hope this person found a good answer. If this is you please send us another email telling us what happened.
the Editors
Thank you for your information and stories. I have heard God calling me to leave LFF/CCF before getting hurt. I have seen the kind of hurt a church can cause and don't want to be hurt. I have been going since August, completing Carpenter Series and taking MIRROR, involved in numerous small groups, and attending church on Sunday, Wednesday, and Friday. I have realized their manipulation techniques, control, and distortion of the truth. If you ever took Carpenter or MIRROR look up the verses in your Bible, there are reasons why they choose not to write it out and only cite it. There are many lies that they say, they twist the Scriptures for their sake. God does not want this! If you have been hurt, I am sorry. If you have any advice I would love it. I am in the process of leaving. I told a JCD that I was leaving and posted a Myspace blog, that night another JCD called my home care leader as she wanted to meet with me and talk. Amy Ratliff talked with me when I returned her call later the next day and asked if I would meet with either her or the Fitzgeralds, I opted for the latter. It's amazing how quick they were to respond and I am not even a member. I have been told I have leadership potential, but that I have to take this class, then this class. They are great at deception, lies, and have built a great ladder of lies or a pyramid scheme. I can use prayer to recover from this and grow through this. I hope those who were hurt can grow in God in truth and light free of LFF.
I passed by this site the other day and meant to send you this. I’m not sure exactly who you are as I did not attend PHS. I can understand how this kind of betrayal could be tremendously gut wrenching to someone who grew up there and then received the news 18 years later that you were being lied to like that. My own experiences there were pretty similar. I did attend LFF from 1998-2001 first as a passerby who went to the CCF meetings (yeah I still know all the silly acronyms!) then was baptized there and became a provisional member and part of a HCG. Once in, I found that ‘friends’ really would not associate with me anymore and held me at arm’s length. I found that there was tremendous pressure for me to participate more and more financially into the church. I also began to notice that there was a sort of ‘good old boys’ club there that refused to open up any opportunities for success to anyone but people inside their group. Yeah, some of those people over there are pretty twisted and emotionally dangerous individuals. And the saddest thing of all is that a lot of people like myself were genuinely committed to the good aspects of the place while we were all being used as patsies for the Bardens and Phil and Kari Vance as well as their officers under them. These days I only look back at that time in my life with bitterness. It took a lot of fighting on my part to break free of this and it’s nice to know I’m not alone on this.
If you ever want to talk more about LFF and life after it, shoot me a reply and let me know. What I can tell you is that there is life after it – a lot more than you think.
A Former Inmate
How do you know what is real anymore? One does a lot of questioning when one escapes LFF. I am told that many couples break up when one or the other begins to associate their spouse with the bad experience - that happened to me.
It takes time to heal i think is my best advice. One of the painful realities we have all experienced is that not everyone that names the name of Christ is actually walking with him or represents him.
I take great comfort in the New Testament writings where Paul warns of false teachers. He really came down hard on them even suggesting in Galatians 5:12 that they would castrate themselves!
God will sometimes use insincere people to reach us. Check out Phil 1:17-18. God sent a jackass to Balaam Num 22:25... God used Balaam for a short period but when Balaam persisted in wrongdoing God took him out, see Num 31:8.
The new testament is very clear however about rejecting false teachers. 2 Peter 2:1... "secretely introduce destructive heresies, .. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up... they are like brute beasts... They will be paid back wit5h harm for the harm they have done...they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed-accursed brood! They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam sone of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness. But he was rebuked for his wroingdoing by a donkey."
Jesus in Revelation 2:2-3 compliments those who reject false teachers "I know that you cnnot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false."
Take heart. You have identified and rejected the false teachers and false apostle at LFF!
Re-read the New Testament with new eyes without them looking over your shoulder. It is the Holy Spirit that teaches us.
John 2:26 "I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you recieved from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit-just as it has taught you, remain in him."
God will lead you in peace. Don't go where you have no peace or where there is fear. Jesus said that his sheep know is voice and they will not follow another.
As for spiritual gifts, yea, there were a lot of things faked. It is interesting - God would move genuinely and they would try to organize it and make it fit into their little world of control. The Spirit would withdraw and they would contrive a substitute. I was on healing teams and we saw a lot of genuine things - until the instruction came down to stop "waiting on the Lord, just line them up and pray for them in order" & "we have a ministry circle for counseling needs - send any of that over there" Seems the ministry circle was not getting any visitors... The whole ministry died that very day and things instantly changed. This is a lesson i shall never forget but they never learned. Having begun in the Spirit they are ending in the flesh.
Count your blessings, you have escaped. Ask the Lord to show you what lessons he wants you to learn from being their. It will take time to unlearn the false teachings. You will probably still hurt for a while but most traumatic injuries to either body or soul take time to heal. Re-visit the Bible with new eyes. Read things in context and for the plain meaning. What is also interesting is what is not there. For instance, i cannot find any good contextual reference to tithing in the NT! Tithing is from the Law. Giving is encouraged according to what one has, not according to what one does not have. It will take time for you to heal financially also.
Jesus is real. He is definately your friend. He sprang you from that place. Give yourself time & permission to heal. Listen to your heart where the Spirit resides. Go back to the Bible with new eyes.
George N. Sally
To the kid in Pensylvania: Most of us have prayed for years for Barden's bunch. Truth is that it has not helped them at all. They are continuing on in their life of lies. Pretty sad commentary i know! But when truth and reality smacks you in the face what do you do? Obviously you have never visited LFF so i'll cut you some slack. This whole thing seems so unbelievable that it couldn't possibly be true - right? Wrong! We must put the Word of God above our own notions.
I therefor pose the question: Is it possible that Bardens have engaged in an unrecoverable state of unscriptural belief and activity?
Answer: yes and no. Yes if they continue on. No, if they repent. I suppose that my answer begs the question but ultimatley this is a question that only God can answer.
Miracles are still possible and repentance is still offered by God. But i don't think God will be impressed by a cheap response. I've seen no hint of any change of heart, sad to say. Will prayer do any good? Pray as the Spirit leads.
Scriputre: Rev 20:20; Jude 11; 3 John 1:11; 2 John 1:9; 1 John 3:7-10; 2 Pet 2:1-9; 1 Pet 5:1-4; James 1:22-25. I suppose i could go through the whole Bible and pick out a warning or instruction applicable to the Barden bunch. Suffice it to say the words are there if they care to listen.
You would do well to study the book of Galatians. Paul is dealing with false leadership who are coming in and trying to decieve the Galatian church. In Gal 5:12 Paul hopes that these teachers of the false circumcision doctrine would castrate themselves! Now how Christian is Paul's attitude here? He really wishes they would cut their own testicles off. Ouch! - that will mess with somebodies pet doctrine. What we can learn from Paul's comments that it is entirely proper to reject those who bring false teaching into the Church.
My experience is that Bardens have found every possible excuse for themselves. This is the double standard (attitude) that Jesus so roundly condemned in the Pharasies of his day.
1 John 5:16 is an interesting verse. I'm not trying to say it applies to Barden but i mention it here as a serious note. "if anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refere to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death."
I wish John was a little more clear on this and spelled it out a little. But from the overall scriputral vantage point the picture does not look good for Bardens, Vances & Hunters. They might do well to read the story of King Saul. Saul started out depending upon God and in the end he consulted a witch and dies from a horrible suicide in a loosing battle with the enemy. Not so rosy a picuture, eh? I'll let other debate whether or not he went to hell.
Bardens and Vances and Hunters are in serious jeopard with God. There have already been a lot of prayers given, with the hope of their turning from such evil ways; but to no avail. Will prayers help? Personally, i am more interested in building God's kingdom (not Bardens) and in ministering to the people who have been hurt by LFF. The people who are pouring their hearts out on this BLOG are the ones who are responding to God. They are the ones that need our prayers and support.
George N. Sally
PS check out Matt 13:25-40.
...just want to point out... HunterS... should not be used Gale Hunter was a saint and MANY times stood alone for the truth, this I witnessed... if you must refer to the Hunters, I am sure you mean Kevin Hunter, just to clarify :)
To 6/27 2:22.
How can you know what is real anymore?
We need to use the scriptures as the plumb line to judge what is true and what is false.
The scriptures often took a back seat to experiences at LFF, to fuzzy feelings, to ill-defined spiritual nuances.
For instance, PS's 'vision' of God opening his hands and people falling through it is not scriptural. The scriptures tell us that none of those the Father has given to the Son are lost.
The concept of deriving significance from someone's personal attention is not a scriptural concept. By this I mean having someone give you a "word" is wrong, and the yearning to have that person give it to you is close to idolatry. Our significance is in Christ, by faith. We are not elevated by those foolish spooky experiences that always, if we were honest, left us emptier than before. At least, they left me emptier than before, and I remember with shame how I wanted the attention of my leaders so they could speak some spiritual pearl into my life that was hot off the heavenly presses.
All of this, of course, is a twisted version of scriptural leadershipship, and that is really the confusing thing. Mixture is always confusing. Mixing good with the bad leaves confused people who end up leaving the faith, in many cases.
The scriptures are clear that a man in leadership in the church are to live in harmony with his wife. Significant marital disharmony could be grounds for disqualification of church leadership. However, this was flagrantly ignored, and may still be to the present day.
In addition to using the scriptures to discern error, there is another rule of thumb. Christianity is very simple. If you find things that are complicated, be sure to check them with the scriptures, they may be untrue as well.
Certainly, if LFF was anything, it was complicated, and confusing.
Thanks for the reminder - i ment only Kevin Hunter. All my bad memories are of Kevin. Gale I remember as mostly silent and a very supportive person. If she spoke out against all the mania it must have been behind the scenes or after I left. Her courage can only be admired.
Geo. N. Sally
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