Another response to Eric
Eric,
I am grieving over some of your comments. I know you and Sarah and I know you both are some of the kindest people I have ever met. I also know the level of involvment you had.
Eric, I was much more involved. Got to the CCL level and also spent many hours personally with Vances, Bardens, etc, in their home, with them on vacations, etc.
I guess the thing that grieves me the most is after you left the things I witnessed and the depth of feeling I had for LFF. I knew God wanted to make some changes but LFF leadership refused to make them. I can tell you that numerous pastors in that church and other leadership tried their best to make those changes happen.
Eric, I grieve at times, at times I am angry, at times I am appalled at what I witnessed and the things I saw others go through. It wasn't what I thought it was at all when it came to certain leadership and how they treated those under them. Yes, there were some good ones but the bad ones who say they love but never truly act on it are still there.
I have numerous friends who suffered the worst who don't even participate in this blog.
All I ask is that you not judge those who write here. As a former leader I witnessed so many of the things people are sharing on here. I wish they weren't true, I cried my guts out when I left because there were times I loved so deeply everyone there.
The church you left was not the church it became, if that makes sense. There are still people I care about there but most of them have moved on. And by that I mean several hundred.
I am blessed at your generous heart. You actually took the bible principles and live them. You would be shocked at how much a church leadership could preach that kindness/generosity and yet live as far from it as possible. Please keep showing Jesus like you do, and pray healing for those of us who are somewhat shaken to the core from what has happened to us and those we love.
--
Note: this was posted under My Truth About Living Faith, but thought it would be good to highlight. DPR!!!
7 comments:
"The church you left was not the church it became, if that makes sense."
Yes, this makes perfect sense because it is a short description of why peoples' recollections differ. Those who got off the train at an early stop generally have positive memories. Many who stayed on in hopes that it was really going somewhere finally got off realizing that things were getting worse the longer they stayed on. Understandably these people left with disappointments.
-JW
Dear 'Another...'
You know, it's been a year or two since I visited...maybe this whole exodus of hundreds has happened in the last 18 to 24 months? I did run into the LFF group at last years CMS (www.christianmusiciansummit.com)and I saw several faces I knew from my time at LFF, so I guess there's been a lot more leaving than I would have guessed.
I hope people aren't concluding I'm out to get them or cause purposeful hurt. It sounds a lot like everyone's been hurt plenty enough. I believe and accept what everyone's said (though I never witnessed or experienced any abuse). I guess my intent was to defend the good that I did walk away with. If people are going to be grieved by the fact that I took a boat load of good with me from my time at LFF and that I encourage them to do the same...all I can say is that I'll never see eye to eye with a person like that.
Is there anything in particular that grieves you from what I've said??? I would love to talk about it with you either here or you can shoot me an e-mail: edrivdahl@hotmail.com.
Cheers,
e.
Eric,
I understand what you mean about being grateful for the good things that you could walk away with from LFF. There are some ideals and Christian principles that I still hold to dearly. But they weren't taught to me only at LFF. I tried really hard not to throw the baby out with the bathwater when I left.
Two years ago, I counted at least 250 people who had already left and there has been at least 50 more. Not all left with issues but the majority did.
I think LFF is like many family situations where there are several kids and only one or two are being abused. The rest who aren't abused don't understand and they struggle to make heads or tails of what is said by those who are being abused. Since you weren't abused you may not be able to picture those you respected the things they are accused of here. Like most perpetrators of abuse, some of the LFF leaders mentioned are really great at manipulation, and deception, and rule by fear.
I guess I just got the impression that maybe you were skeptical that all this could have happened there and that maybe people were just looking at it all wrong. I know some things may have been blown out of proportion in the expression of pain, but I also have several friends who have suffered from even worse things than are expressed in most of these stories and they don't even post on here. They don't read the blog. Knowing what happened to me, and to them reinforces my desire to care for others while they are here expressing the things they went through.
We are all in the healing process. Much like the grieving process, the separation and healing sometimes involves anger, depression, denial, etc. But it is all part of the process and I can't condemn someone for venting even if I would not write some of those things.
Thanks Eric for the response.
nor is the church it became, the church it is now. i've been there through the transition from bardens to vances and i know alot of the wrong that was done in the past, and i knew what the leaderships' "heart behind it" was...didn't make it right...but i also know what their heart is now, to accept that some of the things done were wrong, even if in the name of ministry, and to change those things. i've sat down and asked my questions of some of the pastors and i've actually gotten some straight answers. they know they've messed up (at least the ones i've talked to do) and they do desire to keep learning and growing, right along with the rest of us. wouldn't it be nice if pastors were perfect? well, they're not. they're human just like you and i. =) i just want people to see that changes are being made. some of you won't believe that, and that's fine. i'm not trying to make anyone believe anything. i comment for those who are curious about the truth, and about what it's like today.
To the previous commentor, the current leadership knows how to appease you.
Did you not notice that the people who first left and many of the succeeding ones were those who had served directly under the current leadership - before the passing of the baton even happened? Those who were close to the Vance fire got burned and had to get out. Several pastors who had served under Bardens thought things would be better under Vances and yet they got badly burned as well. I am not talking about simple mistakes - I am talking about blackmail, lying, backbiting, and serious abuses. So when you say "oh they just aren't perfect" I become a cynic. When confronted about these issues they quietly but vindictively slandered those bringing up the issues, or yelled at them.
Many people who brought their questions to the current leadership heard all that "sincere" stuff, too. When they left the membership was told "We didn't know there were any issues" or "they left with our blessing" which was not what was said in slightly more private settings. I was there for a long time during the current leadership's reign and I (and several friends) caught them lying to us about things and feeding us with lines they knew we wanted to hear.
Simple "mistakes" are one thing. But what I experienced and watched so many others experience were not simple mistakes. They were not "oopses".
like i said..."some people won't believe" what i have to say.
What about asking forgiveness of those who have left. By LFF leaders own teaching on repentance that is what they should be doing - making restitution with those they wronged. To me, that is the best indicator of change. But I know only 1 person out of dozens that the current leadership has done that with.
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