New avitar

It is interesting that the web people at LFF decided to change the photo that we used as the avitar for Innocence Destroyed. It is a little remeniscent of how we felt about the plastic faces the greeeters put on to greet everyone at the door. Thank you for the laugh!
ARRGH!!! DPR Lives!!!

Pearl of Great Price

A hurt or a wrong was described to me by a Pastor using the story of the Pearl of Great price, he interpreted the story this way - A clam gets a piece of sand or some other irritant inside it's shell it has no way of getting rid of that piece of sand. Instead the clam produces a mucus that covers that piece of sand to make it slippery as time goes by the coatings of mucus keep covering the sharp edges of that irritant until eventually it is smooth and becomes a beautiful pearl. This process can take many years and the pearl never leaves the clam until we open it up. This is your hurt or irritant it will always be a part of you it could be physical or mental abuse or any other wrong done to you. Each time we feel that hurt we need to go to God and release it. As we do God's love comes and covers that hurt slowly lessing that pain over time. A life time of going to him for his grace, love and covering creates that beautiful Pearl of our life and when we reach that great gate that is what we will present to him. Our pearl, Our Life created by him to be beautiful even in our pain. Realize that he is there for you no matter what. You are his "Pearl of Great Price".

Hello -

I found your blog yesterday and spent a good portion of the day and evening reading it. I too was a victim of LFF. I was there from 1995 - 1997. The Worship Center was just being completed. I remember the first evening I arrived and how welcoming everyone was. I had just relocated to Pullman to work on some coursework prior to graduate school and I didn't know anyone. It was so very welcoming.
I have to say in some ways I lucked out and was not fully sucked into the the church because of my work schedule that included both Saturday and Sunday. When I first arrived I was put on the shepard path and into JCD and I was in a cool home fellowship group with Sally and Tim Mildren. While going through the GG class, I switched to a sheep type. I was changed into a non-cool group.
My friend that had introduced me to LFF had a falling out with Sherri and then more with everyone else after she met a man in Spokane when the CCF went ice skating and they fell in love.
I mostly wanted to say thank you for your site and your bravery and for being open and honest about LFF. And I will continue to hope that the friends I made there that were still their when I left have also "seen the light" and moved on. I think of them often.

The Old is New

OK, we went through all of the old mail and deleted it. We posted everything that looked like it hadn't been posted. If you wrote something that you really wanted on the blog, please send it to us again. We will be glad to post it. If you have been in touch with other people who may have stopped visiting the blog, let them know that it is active again.
Thanks and blessings! DPR! (arrgh!)

Misc. Musings -
As the Administrator points out - the previous and current leadership are following the same suit - no change, no responsibility. My theory on the whole thing is that they CAN'T change. What I mean is that to admit their fault or responsibility in any of these tragic stories, will mean that they are indeed guilty and their pride just could not handle the possibility they are guilty in all or even one.

No, what they would do is review every case, research it, find the details, investigate, interview, interpret and then look into the past of the "complainer" and find it was all a result of all of us "not taking responsibility for our own choices" or the "struggles we were having with sin" or "we were volitional" thus their responsibility is absolved...or another out is just shift the blame - it was their parent's fault, the sister's fault, etc. Therefore, no need to take responsibility - it wasn't their fault and even if they did do something that hurt someone - it was because we interpreted it wrongly, therefore absolving their guilt once again - it was us. They absolutely believe that system to the core and that's why they are clinging to it desperately. I don't ever expect a change, sadly.

In order to continue on, they simply can not face the reality or it would destroy the whole premise on which their fragile world is built. It's the age-old LFF cycle - any questions, any pain, any hurt means that there is something wrong with all of us and we should repent for feeling those things and then take responsibility that we chose to stay and be wounded.

It's a whole veil of deception that I believe they must continue to cling to in order to feel confident in what they are continuing to do. In fact, I would venture to guess that because of the length and strength of this belief on their part, that they don't really know what reality is anymore. What they believe to be true is the only reality they know. Therefore, our healing can not depend on their response, change, compassion, etc. We have to find it outside of that structure entirely - in God, in the Word and in each other.

So, in moving forward, I read a research report this week about how writing about traumatic situations and events helps the person move on and is being used by many doctors to help people heal from events ranging from war to abuse to events like we have gone through. In fact there is a summary of that topic in Jan 2006 Better Homes Magazine too. In the book, Purpose Driven Life, Rick Warren suggests that you write a letter you will never send. Spell out all the details, all the names, the pain, the feelings, etc. and then destroy it. That helped me tremendously - even if my thoughts or feelings didn't seem rational, I put them down and listed specifics - mind you it was a very long letter, but it was good for me! This blog site is a therapeutic tool for many. As you begin to formulate your thoughts and experiences in words, it helps you sort them out and move on from them. It takes part of the power of those memories away in a sense. It doesn't erase the things that happen or the emotions tied to those events, but it will help you begin to make sense of what you've been through and help you to put them to rest.

Thank you for your help and for the blogspot. May we all find the healing we're looking for. Bless you!

LFF Leadership - Move On!

TO THE LEADERSHIP OF LFF - MOVE ON ALREADY!!

I was just enjoying the fact that we did exactly what we wanted on New Year's Eve and New Year's Day and didn't have to spend the whole night listening to people who love to hear themselves talk! Assuming they have the corner on "God's vision" for the year. No, we simply enjoyed our friends and our family and then went to bed!

We just returned from a trip to visit our families, including a stop in Pullman. It was amazing to me the calls you get - the "we really would like to see you and talk to you". WHY? Wasn't 15-20 years of you talking enough? What more could you say? There is nothing else I would like to hear from any of you other than, "please forgive me". But I do not hold my breath on that one. Not a single one of them tried to contact us in the last 4-5 years, why the urgency to interrupt our family time once again for you? I don't think so!

It amazes me at how (pardon if this is offensive) retarded socially those who have been at LFF are...me included, but time is helping that area! In normal life, guess what, people move on. Friends, neighbors, etc. come and go - they make new friends, they get a life. Why do they feel the need to continue to try to "talk to us" after over years and years? I moved many times as a kid. There are some close friends, but I didn't try to hunt down the kid who I had trouble with in 2nd grade to "talk". Bottom line - to those of you from LFF who read this site (Kari included - we know you're there!) - GET A LIFE!!

Can you move on already? There is not one additional word I would like to hear from any of the leadership - current or past. NOT ONE! I am not interested in your "yada, yada" on how much better everything is or your list of improvements, accomplishments or prayer requests. I'm sure there is some current HCL or JCD you can lean on for support - this shoulder and heart are not available to you!
And to the good hearted people we saw that mean well - bless you! Your down to earth, accepting ways are what a real Christian looks like. YOU should be the pastors! To the rest of you - oops - so sorry we didn't return your calls! Have a nice life!

Field Guide to Evangelicals

I have just found a book that made me laugh so hard! It is called A FieldGuide to Evangelicals & Their Habitat by Joel Kilpatrick. You can learnwhat Evangalicals believe, how to identify one in the field, How to see themin their natural habitat, how to decorate like an evangelical....The funnything is that you could change the word "Evangelical" and put in "LFFer" andit wouldn't be too far off.Isn't that funny? I remember how we used to feel about those"Evangelicals"! We were so much better than them. We were the ones on firefor God. But if you look at this book, you will see that, sadly, weweren't too much different from them at all. I highly suggest you read thisbook for a good laugh. I can't put it down. They also have a great website www.larknews.comEnjoy, John Brower

A call to pray for leadership

I am from Pennsylvania and never attended this church that you speak of. I was trying to get the lyrics ,music, and history behind the song and pulled up this website. How sad. My Dad is a pastor and I grew up as a PK. Instead of constantly bashing the family, why not pray for them? Bring your prayers and concerns to Jesus. He understands and will listen. Also, the enemy works strong in a pastor's family, because he doesn't want God's message to get out. Pray for everyone involved in ministry! Pray that they will be able to stand against the enemy. We are in a spiritual battle and we need to come together in prayer!Lititz, PA

Thank God for the blog

Thank God for what you are doing. I have several relatives who have been involved with Living Faith Fellowship for decades. Their lives have been twisted, their hearts broken and – worse yet – they have learned how to use deceptive, manipulative techniques to influence those around them for their own gain. Instead of following the way of the Jesus of the Gospels, these relatives have been taught to follow the Bardens. Even those among them who have broken away find themselves emotionally damaged and deeply confused.

Many of my relatives still cling to the desire to please the LFF hierarchy, in spite of all that I (and other caring relatives) have done to persuade these dear family members of the lack of biblical grounding for Karl and Sherri’s “teachings”, the lack of credible academic credentials of the pastoral leadership, the clear violation of psychological boundaries and many other abuses of their “leadership” positions. I have learned a great deal about this cult-like church from former members, and although the common “word on the street” is that things are better under the leadership of Karl and Sherri’s daughter & son-in-law, I cannot see it. The current “pastors” have no more training, expertise, biblical grounding or credibility than the “founding pastors”. Phil and Kari are enmeshed with Karl and Sherri. As far as I can tell, the sick, disgusting and abusive practices begun by the founders have been institutionalized throughout LFF’s “ministries” over time. It is a system and Phil and Kari are deeply entangled within it. The entire enterprise needs to be exposed to the Light.

It is commonly known that before persons who have suffered physical, psychological and/or sexual at the hands of family members can find healing, they first must be willing to tell the “family secret”. That is what you are doing by creating and maintaining this blog. You are allowing the victims of abuse to “tell” the “family secrets”. Please do not shy away from the task until all is exposed. There is much that needs to be discussed about several of the most disturbing aspects of LFF’s history and practice.

If I may – I would like to suggest a few additional topics which may have not been fully explored -- as yet -- on your site. Among the issues that might be beneficial to discuss, I would name: the annual lavishing of gifts upon the Bardens by the various “home groups”; the lack of accountability structures by which members could have/can exercise checks and balances upon the LFF leadership; the destination of the millions of dollars that has flowed through LFF (I’ve seen discussions of the excessive “tithing” required, but not enough about where all the money went – I have heard that the Bardens and their associates have invested a lot of it in real estate); and the exaltation of Sherri as “God’s Woman”.

I applaud your courage. What you are doing is a service to Christ and his Church.

God Bless You for Your Efforts!

An Anonymous Observer

The Blog Lives On!

I am the Dread Pirate Roberts (for you Princess Bride fans!). The healing that this blog is bringing to all of us is too important to stop, so the posts will continue. You will see some posts that are dated a while ago, just so we can make it through the backlog. Keep reading and commenting. The truth is a good thing, and it is setting us free.
Sincerely,
DPR! (aka, your editors)

Editor's Note

Concerned bloggers have inquired asking why emails have not been posted to the site recently. And some have speculated that the blog had been "shut down" somehow. However the real reason has to do with the fact that the administrator found the process just too painful to continue and has made the following statement:

"Thank you for your concern. As we went on publishing this blog, re-living these memories became often too painful..."

Ultimately, all of us must let go our grip of the past (whether painful, pleasant, or both) in order to embrace what God is doing presently and to embrace what He intends to do in our lives next. (And yes, sometimes we need to vent our pain and anger before moving onward. And to that end much said on this site has been therapeutic.)

And beyond the expression of pain many have felt the need to see the Truth expose untruths. We just cannot be a part of those who continue to compliment the "emperor" on his "new clothes". We ask, "Hey, am I the only one who sees that he doesn't have any clothes on???" The answer is, "No brother and sister, there are many who see the same thing."

Until we meet again bloggers let's remember that the Truth is a Person and not a thing and that He is not negotiable. "He is the same yesterday, today and forever."

"So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the Truth and the Truth will make you free."

Blessings upon all as you travel the freedom road of Jesus Christ.

Broken Wing

So, following are some ramblings of things I have worked out, through, in and still struggle with at times, but wanted to share my heart on dreams and hope it encourages you!

Have you ever heard the song by Martina McBride, Broken Wing? Now you may not like country music, but I love the chorus on this song where it says, "with a broken wing, she carries her dreams...man you ought to see her fly." The song talks about a girl with a dream and how the man in her life is holding her back by telling her that dream is crazy, she'll never do it, etc. That's exactly the role that the pastors of LFF have played for years...breaking wings of young, energetic, youthful dreamers who are at their prime season in life to fly!

For all of you who visit this site, read it or are "sneaking on to it" against your pastor's will, I have a prayer - that you will be able to carry your dreams and fly. Some times I read the blog and I cry. It breaks my heart - more often than not. Sometimes I read it and get ticked. I feel so ripped off. I get angry when I think of what was supposed to be the most special moments in our lives wrecked by the things you talk about - our wedding day, our first pregnancy, the infant years of our children, the things they missed out on, my family, etc., etc. Sometimes I read it and get so sad - almost depressed when I think of the things that we KNEW God had put on our hearts, only to have them shot down and told "that will never happen" flat out by pastors or worse yet, to have our wings clipped by pastors who were threatened and tried to keep us small. And some times I am just floored - I can't believe I stayed so long and put up with so much crap. I'm not a pushover and I guarantee, no one will ever treat me that way again. But in some way, all of us had our wings broken by the experiences and the suffocation at LFF.

I recall one instance where I was speaking with a couple of the five fold pastors and they were floored by what I had said. At the time there seemed to be quite a rash of people who were being treated for depression - why do I know this?...oh, under the guise of "prayer request" all sorts of gossip went on. (One absurdity - in one case, a pastor actually said "oh she's depressed because she doesn't make her bed in the morning") Anyway, I plainly mentioned that I believe absolutely that there are so many people who were depressed because they had to abandon their dreams in God in order stay at LFF. They could not believe it and were not happy. You can imagine this was not a popular word and trust me it was before the "mass exodus" - at least two years before the leadership team fell apart. I remember the look in a certain pastor's eyes and the fury that rose up. I got chewed out up one side and down the other and told I was unspiritual...yada, yada, you know the routine.

But I sit here today and am absolutely convinced that God created each one of us exactly the way we are. Did you ever think about it? HE designed what have been labeled as our weaknesses and used as clubs like they were some big flaw in our being. Hello - God made us that way! It wasn't some mistake like "0h darn, I didn't mean to give him that personality, or that characteristic". NO - God made us exactly the way we are in order to use us for a purpose that only we can uniquely fill. I shouldn't have to be like any other person. That is not God's purpose for me! I am me with my own unique expression, my own unique personality and I deserve to live an abundant life of joy - injured wing and all - singing if I want, worshipping however I want and doing the things that I know bring me closer to God - not what you think is best for me! I know that some of the things God stirred in your hearts years (maybe lifetimes ago) are buried somewhere and I believe that just like a seed, He will bring those things back to life if you want. Maybe not in the grandios ways we may have once imagined, or maybe so...but FOR SURE in the way HE intended. It's not too late. Don't give up. My prayer this year has been "God, you put this dream in my heart, now I am placing it back in YOUR hands - do with it what you will." He has begun to work out some of the most painful parts in my heart...some of the deepest scars...were in the dreams that I vulnerably shared that were thrown down, squished and spat on by "shepherds". It's been years since we left and I have just been able to begin to open this part of me. It's slow and I'm not forcing anything, but it's a good thing...painful and brings up a million emotions, but one baby step at at time.

I pray for all of you - that you will "carry your dreams and fly"! Remember - "His eye is on the sparrow and I know He watches you (and me!)". You are so important to Him, exactly the way you are. The comparisons you were taught or had shoved down your throat were an insult to your maker. You are you. Exactly who God intended to create and use. Take up your dreams and Fly! He will indeed carry you!

Bless you!

Memories of New Years Eve

I always think about our parties at LFF on New Year's. I remember how fun they used to be at the Barden's house and then when we moved them into the first building on Kimball. I remember how fun it was to hang out with everyone and not worry about working. We could talk, we could play games, we could eat. Of course I got kind of tired of the same food every year. I made stuffed mushrooms which were so good, but you could only eat one or two. You can almost feel your arteries hardening as you eat them!

I also have fond memories of waiting to hear what the Spirit was going to say for the coming year. It always got me excited for the next year. Now, however, as I think back to the prophecies (many of which I typed out to post on the board), it seems that they basically said the same thing. "You are my chosen, and I am going to bring a great revival to the world starting in Pullman!" Well, they say you know a prophet by the accuracy of their prophecy.... As the Jews have said "we know we are your chosen, but can't you chose someone else sometimes?" Does it all seem like the prophecies were just another tool to manipulate us into staying at LFF? I long for the Spirit to speak to me as clearly as I thought it did in those days, but to hear Spirit's true words. Do any of you still journal? Do any of you still hear God's voice like we thought we did at LFF?

Editor's Note

Our sincerest apologies...After more carefully reading the content of the previous post and taking into consideration the comments and e-mails we have received about it, we have decided to remove it. We feel the commenters were correct in their cautioning of the use of some names in relation to certain things. Thank you for your input and we apologize for this lapse in good judgment on our part. Oh, and look, we just freely admitted we made a mistake and apologized for it. Too bad those who caused all this pain still appear to have no intention to follow suit. It is predictably sad and again highlights the fact there are still major problems at LFF. What change??? The former leadership can see no wrong and thus will not come clean and the current leadership is doing exactly the same. How tragic.

What happened to Love? (email)

As I have read bits and pieces of the blog and consider it's purpose - to bring healing through understanding and support. To let you all know that it wasn't just you, you're not crazy or ungodly for the things you feel, I am left with so many questions, regrets and emotions that quite honestly I wonder if I will ever be rid of them. It makes me sad. In many ways I feel ripped off.

After recounting the many pains, experiences and situations of our years at LFF, we are assured regularly through those still there who know us that things are changing - they're different - they've learned. I question - "how could they have learned? they do not listen", "how can they be different - they still do not love or care or show compassion, they still look for the fault, not the good, the pure, the lovely." What exactly has changed? Aside from a few externals, I am not certain. And honestly, I don't care. I won't listen to the pleas, the criticisms, the explanations any more. Don't bother me with more words.

Case in point:

I recently had someone close in a very serious life or death situation in the hospital - too young to die. What do you suppose trickles down from LFF and some of it's current leadership but judgment? It's because of their upbringing and that of the family that they are in the hospital and in this situation. There's an explanation as to it's demonic origin and the wrong ways they lived and thus, voila! - tragedy. No concern, no care, no prayer, just an explanation. Do I care? What happened to love? What happened to God's power to do a miracle - which He did, by the way!

This happens all the time in so many areas. How many people will it take to recall the times that all that was looked for in them was the "wrong, the bad, the errors" - Our oldest child was having one of those sessions last night - recalling memories from PCS. What happened to looking for the good, pure, lovely?

How many accusations about participating in this blog, questioning everything from our relationship with God to our very salvation will be handed along? What happened to grace and love and compassion? What happened to humility?

How many "concerns" for our spirituality will be passed on as Christ-like with no more than a condescending voice and look - saying they are more spiritual than us? What happened to meekness and understanding?

How many times will we hear "we have left the Holy Spirit" because we do not practice exactly as you say we should? What happened to God? Where does He fit in to all of this?

Of course we are all not perfect in our faith or walk, but the honesty and truth that many here have expressed in the REALITY of where they are at I believe is exactly what God is looking for. REALITY has it's own sense of peace. No more pretending, no more shows, no more hypocrisy, no more crap. Just me - exactly where I am - in front of God - who is the ONLY ONE who can make me something different from here! It feels good, I recommend it. REALITY that is.

The Cult Test

The C word has come up on this blog. It is not easy to accept, even for those who have left, it involves painful soul searching and honesty. These simple ten rules may help you determine if you have been in, or are in a cult.

1. The Pastor is always right.
The Pastor, his church, and his teachings are always right, and above criticism, and beyond reproach.

2. You are always wrong.
The individual members of the cult are told that they are inherently small, weak, stupid, ignorant, and sinful, and are in no way qualified to judge the Pastor or his church. Should you disagree with the leader or his cult about anything, see Cult Rule Number One.

3. No Exit.
There is simply no proper or honorable way to leave the cult. Period. To leave is to fail, to die, to be defeated by evil. To leave is to invite divine retribution.

4. No Graduates.
No one ever learns as much as the Pastor knows; no one ever rises to the level of the Pastor's wisdom, so no one ever finishes his or her training, and nobody ever graduates.

5. Cult-speak.
The cult has its own language. The cult invents new terminology or euphemisms for many things. The cult may also redefine many common words to mean something quite different. Cult-speak is also called "bombastic redefinition of the familiar", or "loading the language".

6. Group-think, Suppression of Dissent, and Enforced Conformity in Thinking
The cult has standard answers for almost everything, and members are expected to parrot those answers. Willfulness or independence or skeptical thinking is seen as bad. Members accept the leader's reality as their own. Ask a candid question, get a canned answer.

7. Irrationality.
The beliefs of the cult are irrational, illogical, or superstitious, and fly in the face of evidence to the contrary.

8. Suspension of disbelief.
The cult member is supposed to take on a childish naïveté, and simply believe whatever he is told, no matter how unlikely, unrealistic, irrational, illogical, or outrageous it may be. And he does.

9. Denigration of competing groups, or organizations.
This is common, and hardly needs any explanation.

10. Personal attacks on critics.
Anyone who criticizes the Pastor, the cult or its dogma is attacked on a personal level.

Rather than honestly and intelligently debating with critics, using facts and logic, the cult will resort to low personal attacks on the critic, using name-calling, slander, condescending put-downs, libelous accusations, personal slurs, accusations of bad motives, and casting aspersions on the critic's intelligence and sanity --
"You are just an atheist, a liar, a dummy, a sinner, a drunkard, stupid, crazy, only in it for the money, etc... And you have bad taste in music and an ugly hair-cut, too."


Adapted from http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult_q0.html.

Changed (via email)

I sit here and feel emotions I though I had successfully sealed away. I sat at my computer and tears poured down my face as the pain and hurt and rage came roaring back. I do not know what to say really. I have debated even writing this. I am sure that there are many of you who felt the same emotions, thought the same thoughts when you contemplated writing your story down. A friend sent me the link and I am not so sure I should thank her. I have wrestled with telling my experience, wondering if it would serve any purpose. I have decided to do so. There are many of you who will relate, and some of you who will not, to which I am grateful you have been spared.

Many of you will figure out who I am as you read. The rest do not need to know me. To those who know, maybe this will help understand some things.

I am a product of LFF. I was not born into the church, but my family made up a large part of PCS in its early days. I was infused with LFF's dogma, legalism and servitude. My first day of PCS was the first year in the "barn". I was able to survive 8 years at PCS before I was given a choice. Come back as a freshman and submit to unbending rules and restrictions due to some infraction the year before, or go to a public school. I leaped at the chance to go school with out a dress code and for sports and girls ect. I though this will be great. Was I in for a shock. I realized that in the education department, I was above my pears do to PCS's system. But socially, what a reject. I had no idea how to interact with kids my age or girls. I was forced to continue to come to church. I hated Wednesday and Sundays. I knew I would be unable to talk to any of my former friends. I was ostracized, because I was now a bad influence and rebellious. This was my first taste of how LFF can turn on its "own" if you dare go against them. I went a bit wild to say the least. I ended up moving away and fell into a world I almost did not come out of alive. Fast forward 4 years.

I just turned 18, I have been on my own for almost 2 years. Dropped out of school to work to feed myself. Depend on no one, answer to no one, I am my own master. I have a horrible drinking and drug problem. I have been raped, beaten, robbed, hospitalized, and arrested. I know I won't live to see 19 if things keep going as they are. I am horrible alone.

I don't know what will happen if I ask to come back home, but I have to try. I make the call. I am told I can come back, but I know what my family believes and how they live. Can I submit to the rules and lifestyle? I say I don't know. I think about it for a few weeks. I have hit rock bottom, at this point I will do almost anything to escape. I say I can, I need to do something different. Life has not worked out so well. My dad and I have a long talk when I arrive. He needs to know what they have to face in the next few weeks as my body starts to purge itself. Also do a lot of talking about God and salvation. I become saved for probably the first time in my life. I remember "conversions" in PCS as a kid, but those were mostly because it was expected, along with bible memory and demerits.

I think I had finally found a relationship with God. It is the only thing that helps me survive the next year. I come back to LFF. I am not welcomed back with open arms as is the prodigal son, though I am called that many, many times. I have very strict guidelines that I have to meet to be allowed to come back. First, I go no ware in church with out my dad. Not even to the bathroom. I can talk to no one I knew or have any unattended conversations. I am watched constantly, and must prove myself to the leadership. This is how LFF welcomes back their own. I must beg to be able to attend GG's. I luck out and get a awesome guide. He is most definitely God sent , and is able to help me survive this ordeal. I go back to high school. I still have no friends until on guy steps forward and befriends me. We soon become inseparable, we understand each other, and best of all, he did not know me before I came back. I think he is my best friend. ( I come to suspect later that I had been assigned to him)

I survive this "probation", not with out some troubles along the way. I am physically healthy and struggling spiritually. I 'fall" to temptation time and time again. I step out of line even the slightest and I am nailed. There is no give for me, no leeway. This sets up my future at LFF.
Somehow I survive and seem to prove myself enough to be deemed "safe". . Fast forward 2 years.

I graduate high school and go to work. Decide not to go to college. Move out on my own. I follow all the steps, gg's, Cat's, Mirror's. ect. I do everything I think I am supposed to to develop into a "leader". I work on the new building every free moment,I meet a girl, who I fall deeply in love with. I make a couple of really good friends who are similar in thoughts and interests . The 4 of us become great friends. I join JCD's. Along the way, somehow, I develop a relationship with Jesus that I had always longed for bet never though possible. I can survive everything because I found something to help me. Life seems to be good.

Soon things begin to unravel for me. I almost lose my job due to the amount of time I spend helping on work crews, doing what is 'expected." Also, this is almost the only way I get to spend time with my girlfriend that is approved. Because young people are not to be trusted alone together on dates. Ever. No exceptions.

My relationship with God has deteriorated into works and legalism. I am struggling and do not know why. I have lost that relationship i used to have. I have myriad questions and concerns. I have done all the steps you are supposed to, and still there are no "leadership" roles for me. I see people coming in who are here for a very short time before they are "marked" for greatness and leadership roles. They are mentored and favored by leadership. I am starting to feel the bitterness as I struggle to prove myself over, and over again. I I dare voice these concerns.

I absolutely regret doing that. I get told that I am rebellious and no longer have a servants heart. I am strongly encouraged to break up with the girl, until I can get my relationship with God back. Combined with all this, I am now spending increasing amounts of time gone due to my work schedule.This sets the beginning of the end. There are a few memorable things which occur...

The girl and I break up. I am called in to Bardens office two weeks after the breakup with the girl and get told that the relationship will never work. She is a white collar girl, and I am only a blue collar guy. I am told that it will be very difficult for me to make the relationship work. This is peoples lives manipulated. She gets marked for great thinks and I am not good enough for her. I am shocked and horrified by this. I ask my CCL, what is wrong with me? Why am I not good enough. I wonder why whenever I do something wrong the news travels like lightning, yet when something like this happens, or I do something good, the news never gets relayed.

I pour myself in to the "programs" and recover a semblance of my relationship with god. Maybe I do, things seem to be going good. Leadership seems to be taking notice. Along the way the girl and I get back together. She confesses she is still in love with me, and I with her. We take it slow and try to keep leadership involved, just like good little sheep. I become a servant minister to Sherri, and am told what a honor this is. I think this is finally paying off. I am now starting to come into the potential I have been told for years that I have.

Things seem to be great. The girl and I are in the middle of the marriage homework. Work is going good. I am planning on asking her to marry me. Life is ok for me. Little did I know what was on the horizon.

The girl and I are on the last lesson of the homework, I have my proposal all planed and my leadership know all about it and approve. All the sudden the girl is to busy to spend time with me. No reasons, just always busy suddenly. I am confused and in pain and not understanding. Feeling very rejected and in pain. Come home from work out of town a few weeks later and girls want to see me. We get together and I ask what is going on. I feel like I am losing her and not sure why? She breaks up with me. Tells me her leadership agree with her. She says they helped her see that our lives were going two different directions and her relationship with God has suffered while being with me.

I am now very angry and hurt and confused. I feel like I have been blindsided and stabbed in the back. My life had been manipulated like some puppet. I am lost. I try prayer. God does not seem to hear. There is no solace in prayer or spiritual notebooks for me. I feel completely abandoned. By the only girl I have ever loved and trusted, and by God. I go through the motions of survival. I work, I eat, I sleep, I go to church, repeat. In the midst of this I go through a HCG change. I lose my long time HCGL's and get new ones. This means relating my life story and current troubles to virtual strangers.

I manage to survive for a few months on this life. I find works and legalism are not enough for me. I start to question things and I am getting no answers. I get told I am being rebellious again just like when I was a kid and look were that got me. I go to pour out all my troubles to my new HCGL's and try to find some answers. I pour out all my hurt and anger and doubts about losing this relationship with the girl, and about not sensing God anymore. I get told by the female half to "get over it. She is never coming back, now stop feeling sorry for yourself."
I stand up and walk out. I never go back to that home group.

I have fallen into depression. Everything in my life is unraveling. No relationship. No connection with God. Work is going badly. Seeing the girl every Sunday and being ignored is killing me. I start to work 70 and 80 hours a week. I struggle to find God again. Nothing seems to work. A memorable life changing event is going to take place. A man dies who I had been rude to the last time I had spoken to. I attend his memorial service and feel immense grief that the last words I had spoken had been horrible to this man, and I would never get the chance to ask his forgiveness or to let him know that I truly liked him. As I sit there feeling these emotions, Sherri Barden stops by my seat, grabs my arm, looks me in the eyes and tells me that she had wasted her time on me and everyone else had wasted time on me when they could have given to this man, and how he had really loved Jesus and now he was dead and here I still was.

I was absolutely floored. This is the woman to whom I had been a servant minister. This is the woman who had told me a few weeks before that she knew what God intended for my life and that it would be a great thing. This is the woman who I though loved me out of all the Leadership. This is supposed to be someone who is far more spiritual and hears God far more clearly that I She is one of the head pastors. I snapped. I walked out in a rage.

I stop going to church. I can not find God. I am a waste of time. I am alone and confused and full of despair. I change jobs. I spend intense times alone. I loose my friends as they do not know what to say to bring me out of despair. I learn that friends have been warned against spending time with me and I am once again a bad influence. Life at LFF has come full circle for me. I am so incredible lonely I attempt suicide. I fail at that also.

Several months go by. A old friend resurfaces. He and I have been like brother's. I limited my time with him in the past as he was a "heathen" and I was counseled to limit contact to conversion attempts only. He forgives me and we resume the depth of friendship we had previously. I get invited to a program at the church called Hells Gates, Heaven something or another. Most of you remember it. My friend comes to visit me that weekend. We go together. It was a impactful show. He has a lot of questions and I try to answer what I can and my Dad talks with him also.

That next morning my friend is killed in a motorcycle accident. We were to get together that night and watch football. My mom and sister show up and tell me the news that my friend had been killed that afternoon. I am understandably very upset. I take off and find myself back at the church and that show. I set there in tears questioning God. I am told that God has a plan and it was my friends time to go. I ask what kind of God takes a man and leaves behind a young child and wife? Once again Sherri Barden comes to the rescue. Someone had told her that my friend had just died that day and she makes the comment to me that if it was not for me my friend would still be here and his daughter would still have her daddy. I turn my back and walked out.

I figured that if this was God and Christianity then I wanted no part of it. I have not been to a church since then. I am living my life apart from everything I had ever been taught by LFF and I am doing well. I do not claim to be a christian or live like I am one. I have no understanding of how some of you can just forgive that place or the people of it. I am not that way. I have nothing but spite for LFF and its leadership. To this day, Christians have been some of the most dishonest, backstabbing, despicable people I have ever run across.

This is not meant to make me sound like a victim, and I know I made my share of mistakes along the way. However LFF had no call to try and manipulate my life or others as it saw fit to do so. I still face the after effects of my time at LFF. LFF made me dance on their strings for far to long. Do not pray for me, or feel sorry for me. I do not want it or need it. Maybe this will help someone.

LFF Doctrine and My Struggles with Assurance

via e-mail...

I was depressed after leaving LFF but didn’t know what was going on inside. I spent nearly 8 years of anxious ridden activity there, trying my best to be an obedient follower of Christ under the “covering” of my HCG/CC/Pastoral leaders. After I left it took me years of intense study to undo the skewed teachings and LFF mindsets – though I’m sure some linger. Teachings I knew and believed like the back of my hand as a Member, GG guide, Cat counselor, MTC grad, JCD, Bible study leader and so on. What was the outcome - I discovered the truth of Christ and his work on the Cross as captured by the 5 Solas of the Reformation: salvation by Grace alone, through Christ's work alone, by Faith alone, for God's glory alone as taught by Scripture alone. Yes, I found the Cross.

I could view my years at LFF as wasted and be bitter and such, but I don’t really. I still have fond recollections of people, friends and yes even leadership in most cases – at least as people. I do believe there was a genuineness of faith behind what was done, just a wrong faith that led to wrong actions in a lot of ways. Overall it was not a pleasant time but I had nothing to compare it to, so I thought this is what Christianity was all about. I did suffer a deep seated torment inside most of those years but I chalked most of that up to my sin or lack of faith and pushed through it – thinking things would get better somehow if I only obeyed more, confessed more, prayed more, served more, studied more, was more O.H. & T., etc. Little did I know that torment was mostly based on the logical consequence of believing it was something I did that kept me from being spewed out of Jesus’ mouth and going to hell!

In hindsight I liken those years to the Old Testament Mosaic period when Israel was under the Law. The Law served to demonstrate the exacting requirements of God, unattainable by human effort, and to reveal sin as sin. It was a schoolmaster pointing to the real solution – Christ and His atoning work – the final sacrifice. Similarly LFF’s de facto works righteousness and its effects only made the sweetness of the Gospel message that much more sweeter upon discovery, and therefore I believe in God’s sovereignty He allowed me those 8+ years as a precursor to understanding the truth of salvation by grace alone in a very deep way.

As Paul taught, the Law and its systems were never designed to save, but point to Christ. Woe to those who think they can self-attain righteousness (or some spiritual status) that pleases God and merits his hand of fellowship. It not only is impossible, it displeases God because is totally misses His plan.

Jesus reserved His harshest words for the Pharisees and Paul cursed the Judaizers who taught the Galatians to add the works of the Law in with the Gospel

Similarly we at LFF followed laws, though they were “spiritual” and pietistic in nature – yet laws the same. We paid lip service to God’s grace, but displaced it with spiritual good works. The Cross was a starting point only, not a continuing reality. It was demoted for the higher “truths” and real “maturity”. In fact grace was seen as something that was extended on rare cases, an exception, not the rule. I believe the lion’s share of the pressures and “wrongness” at LFF were tied to this fundamental error, though there were others causes too, divulged elsewhere in this blog.

In my opinion LFF’s perfectionist teachings and practices were a de facto works righteousness and ironically were more akin to Roman Catholic doctrine. During the Reformation even Rome believed in initial Grace for salvation, but taught (and still holds) that upon receipt that grace empowers the believer to do good works, which in turn are meritorious towards salvation. They believe one is saved by works, but not Christ’s alone, you add your own to His. LFF taught you secure your own salvation by being relationally close to Christ, serving him via the Body, and other efforts of heart, mind and body. Which in essence means salvation is not by Christ alone, but something we add to the equation to make it effectual. Therefore both Catholic and LFF doctrines (at least when I was there) are sadly similar in how they intermingle Salvation and Sanctification.

In truth Salvation is a one time, immediate event, that is eternal in its effectiveness and was applied on the condition of faith alone, which itself was a gift of God. It is based on a historical and objective work of God through Christ. His perfect life earned for me a real righteousness I could never earn and his death atoned for my moral debt. He took all my sin and replaced it with His righteousness. That is why the reformers called it an alien or foreign righteousness. I am saved by good works – Christ’s - and those works are no legal fiction. He earned them while on Earth as the sinless man, perfectly obeying the Father, all on my behalf. And the Father accepted them as such – works done by Christ, but accounted to me. This is why Jesus was baptized (amongst other things) – to fulfill all righteousness for His elect.

Sanctification on the other hand is the lifelong process of growing in Christ likeness. It is empowered by God’s grace through the Spirit, and though I do make effort it rests solely on God’s past salvific work and no way contributes to it. God is also behind my sanctification, bringing about his ends in my life by his sovereign hand and does not intend for me to reach perfection in this life in order to make it to heaven – that is already covered by Christ. This does not mean I have a blank check to sin – that is not in keeping with those who are truly saved – we are new creatures who’s lives point in a new direction, though we struggle with indwelling sin daily.

Again, my salvation was by faith alone, but that faith was not alone in that it does bring about good works in keeping with my new creation. However every good work I do merits me nothing in the eyes of God. My works are to be grace motivated, un-coerced, free of manipulation, and yes in need of stimulation by God’s Word – thus the need for preaching - but never something I do to earn/keep my salvation or God’s acceptance.

The message of the Cross is the power and motivator for sanctification and the fruit of the Spirit. Remove it from the very center of Christianity and you drift to something other than Christianity – whether it is moralistic fundamentalism, subjective mysticism or empty liberal theology. The Gospel is for Christians just as much as it is for the lost. It reminds us we are complete sinners saved by grace and our post-conversion life is lived by that same grace in Christ – we have no boasting in ourselves.

I still remember P. Sherri pointing to the Robe of Righteousness worship banner and how the robe was put on the Christian. She took special note to show there were no hands other than Jesus’ doing the placing. She got that right; sadly so many of the other teachings, systems and the everyday practices of LFF militated directly against that Gospel truth. What the right hand gave, the left hand took away.

Though I’ve heard of big changes in LFF since I’ve left (7 years ago) I don’t think they get at the root problems (from what I know). The church needs a reformation. It needs to get back to the Faith once handed down to the saints.

P.S: I wholeheartedly agreed with LFF’s Arminian worldview while there. I imagine they are still against Calvinism (Augustinianism) today. As one who now holds to many tenets of reformation theology and absolutely rejects Arminianism as false I do want to make clear that the LFF characterization of the doctrine of salvation by grace alone was a straw man. What was taught about Calvinism were common misrepresentations that framed this doctrine in such a manor to make it seem obviously wrong. In the end LFF did not reject Calvinism, but a corrupted version of it – I can vouch for that.

Before you handily dismiss what I’ve said I implore you to clearly understand the doctrine and the rebuttals to these common complaints.

Sites I recommend for more info: http://www.solagratia.org/ and http://www.ligonier.org/

I am fully convinced upon careful study in the light of scripture you will see that the message taught by Calvin and Luther (and a host of others) was nothing more than a recapturing of the message of Paul and thus Christ our Lord and Savior. And that message shows the amazing grace of a holy, just and sovereign God who dearly loves his children, chosen in Christ from the beginning of time and secures for them a complete salvation from the wrath to come, all for His glory. It is amazing grace after all and is truly good news – worthy of sharing.

My Story (email)

After having grown up there for eighteen years, I left LFF about four years ago. It was the summer after my freshman year of college. I needed to leave, but I did not fully understand why at the time. At first, I was happy to be moving and grateful to be away from Pullman. Then, we started attending other churches. I recognized the same songs that we had sung at LFF and the same catch phrases. I began dreading church. I hated going and drug myself out of bed every Sunday morning. I would often cry through the service, or do my best to ignore the sermon. Also, I was starting to realize how horrible LFF had been.

I started feeling abandoned. None of my friends at LFF were still my friends save one. I would cry a lot and would go for long walks by the river. I was so lonely. I did not feel that I was able to make friends at the church we were going to because they were too Charismatic. I liked them, but every time I hung out with them, I was thinking “they are just like LFF.” I realize, now, that I had set up a mental block against them. I was prejudice because they reminded me of LFF.

It did not take long before I stopped sleeping at night and started skipping meals. I read all the time; I could not stop and I could not sleep. Therefore, I read all night long, mostly Lord of the Rings. I was trying to escape the problems in my life. I could handle neither my own pain nor that of my family.

I started yelling at God. “Why did you make me like this? Why did you let this happen to me? How could you! Don’t you care at all? I thought that if I believed You would cushion me against all my problems! I even wished that I could be back at LFF and everything could be normal. Oh, to live in a happy and ignorant bubble again!

Depression is a hole out of which there is no ladder. So many times, I felt that I was so depressed that I was drowning in my own tears. I used to hope for rain so that I could feel that I was not crying alone. Later, at another school, I spent all my time watching TV in my dorm room, and doing cross-stitch. I spent at little time as possible thinking I would take walks and hope that someone would ask me what was wrong. Strange, I know, but I didn’t feel like I could hold it in anymore.

At school, I would go to the youth group and spend the whole time crying because of the memories the songs aroused in me. I don’t think that I was ever able to fully explain to my friends there why I did not hang out with them as much as I could have. Eventually, I would make up excuses to arrive late just so that I would miss the worship time. I hated LFF for what they had made me.

Praise God for His Divine Intervention! Else, I would still be caught in this endless cycle of depression and anxiety! Just before I moved to my new school, I had a long talk with my father about Salvation by Grace and Pre-Destination. We had started going to a new church on the recommendation of another Ex-LFFer. Salvation is a gift from God. Therefore, it is only by God extending his hand toward us that we can be saved. Righteousness is a gift from God to sinners. I have no need for that salvation unless I see my self as a sinner. I am a sinner, a horrible sinner (Isaiah 53:6). Without God’s gift of Salvation, I know that I would not really want to be saved. I would want to go to Heaven. Without God, I would not see my sin.

Romans 2:22-24 “This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

I know, so much of this sounds just like LFF, so what is the difference? “Not the Labors of my hands could fulfill thy laws demands” (Rock of Ages). The absence of works is the difference. Despite all that the LFF says, their salvation was on of works. Do you remember being told that you can “earn your place in Heaven?” Romans 8:29-30: “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” Glorification is a part of God’s gift to us. We did cannot earn it.

How proud of me to think that I had a hand in my own salvation! I have been predestined for Salvation since before the creation of the world. I have been called and been declared righteous.

It is hard to forgive those that have wronged me, especially when it pain like that was caused by LFF. I take comfort in remembering that Jesus understands my pain. My pastor made a comment that the only requirement for us to have been saved was that Jesus had to die. He did not have to suffer on the cross; he could have died peacefully in his bed for us to be saved Instead, he chose to die in extreme pain and humiliation, so that he could identify with human suffering. “Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows” Isaiah 53: 4a. CS Lewis has written two books on suffering, which I have had recommended to me (The Problem of Pain and A Grief Observed). One was written before he lost his wife and another was written afterward and each looks at pain from a different angle.

I would like you to know that to this day, I still cannot listen to Christian music after four long years I want to pull back from any sort of volunteer church work mentioned. I cannot stand Charismatic Catch Phrases. I take pleasure in drinking beer out of the mug I got from the JCD retreat.

Healing for me has been a long, slow process. I still struggle with depression and anxiety. It helps me to know that God chose me. “You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit” (John 15:16). He knew me in my mother’s womb. Everyday I face the pain. Nearly every day, I feel like crying about it. I understand what you mean and the struggles you face about not wanting to go to any church. I lived there for a solid two years. It is completely normal.

It grieves me to think about all of the people whose faith was crushed by LFF. I, too, am praying for you.

Numb Lyrics (email)

"Numb"

I'm tired of being what you want me to be
Feeling so faithless lost under the surface
Don't know what you're expecting of me
Put under the pressure of walking in your shoes
Every step that I take is another mistake to you

[Chorus]
I've become so numb I can't feel you there
I've become so tired so much more aware
I'm becoming this all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you

Can't you see that you're smothering me
Holding too tightly afraid to lose control
Cause everything that you thought I would be
Has fallen apart right in front of you
Every step that I take is another mistake to you
And every second I waste is more than I can take

[Chorus]
I've become so numb I can't feel you there
I've become so tired so much more aware
I'm becoming this all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you

And I know
I may end up failing too
But I know
You were just like me with someone disappointed in you

[Chorus]
I've become so numb I can't feel you there
I've become so tired so much more aware
I'm becoming this all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you

Controlling Personalities (email)

Years after leaving LFF I am still processing the following questions:

How it that so many people have been successfully manipulated and
controlled for so many years? What is it about the founding pastors that
gave them the ability to pull this off?

Before I understood that LFF was largely about "control and conformity"
I assumed that it was God who was the source of the amazing power that
they wielded. Only lately have I begun to understand the nature of their
true source.

I highly recommend the following link to learn more. There are a total
of 5 insightful articles on the subject of "Controlling Personalties in
the Church". You will find that most points in the articles are very
descriptive of the dynamics of controlling personalities at LFF both
past and present.

http://dory.typepad.com/wittenberg_gate/2005/05/controlling_per.html

Signs of Spiritual Abuse (email)

1. Apotheosis of the leadership -- exalting them to God-like status in and over the group;
2. Multi-level authority/government hierarchy;
3. Absolute authority of the leadership;
4. No real accountability of the leadership to the corporate body;
5. Hand-picked sub-leaders based on their demonstration of loyalty to the ultimate leader rather than on the basis of their leadership skills, spiritual acumen, and anointing and appointment by God;
6. Pervasive abuse and misuse of authority in personal dealings with members;
7. Paranoia and insecurity by the leaders;
8. Abuse, misuse, and inordinate incidence of "church discipline;"
9. Personal materialism, covetousness, and self-aggrandizement by the leaders;
10. Members/and or sub-leaders must either sign a covenant agreement or make a "spiritual covenant," pledging their allegiance and financial support to the leadership and group;
11. Partitioning of the group into smaller groups that are led by internally "raised up" leaders;
12. Financial exploitation and enslavement of the members;
13. Inordinate attention to the public "image" of the ministry;
14. Doctrinal demeanment and devaluation -- the requisite of espousing and teaching "sound doctrine" is demeaned and devalued;
15. Theological incompetency by the leadership, especially with respect to the rules of hermeneutics and Bible exegesis employed in the formulation of doctrine, giving license to twisting and adulteration of Scripture in order to provide proof-texts for unorthodox and invented doctrines;
16. Spiritualism, mysticism, and unproven doctrines;
17. Abuse and misuse of prophetic giftings;
18. Devaluation, disallowance, disregard, and displacement of the true Fivefold Ministry within the church;
19. De facto legalism, or works mentality, and its resulting loss of the "joy of salvation," though "freedom" is forever preached from the pulpit and the church is constantly touted as being a "safe church" by the leadership;
20. Esotericism -- hidden agendas and requirements revealed to members only as they successfully advance through various stages of "spiritual enlightenment," i.e., unorthodox, unproven indigenous doctrines;
21. Isolationism -- corporate and individual, especially with respect to exposure to outside ministry sources;
22. Performance-based approval and promotion system of members predicated on "proven" loyalty to the leadership;
23. Devaluation, suppression, and non-recognition of members' bona fide personal God-given talents, abilities, gifts, callings, and anointing as a means of subjugation;
24. Requiring members to perform menial tasks, such as cleaning toilets, setting up chairs, and acting as the leader's personal valet or slave, as a supposed means to humble them and teach them to "obey their leaders;"
25. Constant indoctrination with a "group" or "family" mentality that impels members to exalt the corporate "life" and goals of the church-group over their personal goals, callings, and objectives;
26. Members are psychologically traumatized and indoctrinated with numerous improper fears and phobias aimed at keeping them reeling in diffidence and an over-dependence on their leaders and the corporate group;
27. Corporately, there eventually develops an inordinately high incidence of financial, marital, moral, psychological, mental, emotional, and medical problems;
28. Lack of true personal spiritual growth and development, especially in terms of genuine faith and experiencing the abounding grace, forgiveness, goodness, blessings, kindness, and agape-love of God;
29. Members are required to obtain the approval or "witness" of their leader(s) for decisions regarding personal matters;
30. Frequent "war stories" by leaders regarding individuals or families who left the group and the terrible consequences they suffered as a result;
31. Frequent preaching from the pulpit regarding staying under the "spiritual covering" of the leadership;
32. Departing members depart under a cloud of manufactured suspicion, shame, and slander;
33. Departing members often suffer from various psychological problems and display the classic symptoms associated with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).

Sound familiar?

My Thoughts (email)

I completed my rather long stint at LFF a few years ago. I would have left sooner but we all know what kind of shame falls on the remaining family when their child forsakes the church; not to mention I myself was afraid to leave. There truly were not any choices. I was more like a juvenile fish in a fish farm in the middle of Kansas, no hope of ever reaching any real body of water. I am so ashamed to be associated with Living Faith Fellowship, whenever it comes up in conversation I try to leave, but its not always a choice, you eventually get corned and people ask were you went to school. "You went to the cult school, how was that?" From that point on I am (we are) labeled as one of those crazy Living Faithers. I want so badly to shake off this past of mine but I can not, I grew up there. There are times I ask my self: Who can I fault? Is it my parents? They thought there were doing right, doing just as they were told. It saddens me that they still subscribe to that LFF way of life. I was never able to talk to them about life growing up. Now every shred of even speaking to them about the little things is destroyed. When I try to talk to them about the church they just refuse to even evaluate their situation, they put up the defensive walls with an, "I don't want to hear it!". I don't think I'll ever be able to talk to my parents about life, its just gone...

I do think the blame for this rests on many, and I do know that at the root the blame rests on one man.

I am so tired of all the games, all the masks, all the smoke and mirrors. Don't try to charm me. Don't smile at me and make small talk like we're good friends. My life is torn to pieces because of a few people's egos. They never do truly care about any thing but their own little world. I still have not forgiven; it's hard to when the wrong doings are still going on. Why should I forgive when they continue to deepen and salt my wounds? They need to "get their heads out of the sand."
I have come to the realization that these wounds will never heal. They leave ugly scars and continue to re-open and bleed all over the place. Like the life lasting effects of injuries, each one a direct tie to my early days. One of the ways I have found to relive my pain is to laugh at my past, some of the things I remember are just a big joke now. I write them down some times just for kicks and giggles. I have entitled my collection of short stories "Lets compare scars" here are a few of the shorts for your enjoyment.

Today is brought to you by the word....

As a hush falls over the crowed, as a man slowly shuffles its way up to an over sized blue podium. He slaps his outstretched, ring clad hands on its sides. Much licking and smacking of his lips later, he utters forth a new word, which has never before fallen on human nor animals ears. "Gloryifickjtasticah." (To be heard, glory-if-ick-tastic-ah) The people loudly cheer and clap their hands. The man stands, slowly looking side to side licking and smacking his lips. A pleased look crosses his faced as he thinks "Yesss, once again I have pulled the wool over the entire congregation's eyes" The cheering subsides to a dull roar as the man says,"Say to your neighbor Gloryifickjtasticah, as you are seated" The people blindly follow his direction, every one of them uttering nonsense.

Pappa knows, Pappa knows....

Sitting amongst my Christian school peers, all dressed in polyester, hushed in silence as if there were a dead body on display. Sweating, waiting for the "great privilege" of Pappa's wisdom, that we may be enlightened by the wisest man in the world. Shifting in our chairs, wondering what the opening topic would be, glancing around looking for missing friends. Would it be another room spinning 1 hour and 1\2 hell? Has one of our friends fallen to the world, "turning their backs on us?" Was today's topic, "Council on how to avoid all contact with this fallen friend," followed up by seeming hours of teared and fiery prayers, that they would turn away from the path to fire and brim stone. Would the boys and girls be separated this time, so they could confront one of us with a sick and heinous sin while the other gender prayed for the detained, that we would spiritually ignite and become men or women of god. We were required to conjure up questions that our parents couldn't answer, so pappa could flex his superior, enlightened mind. If we couldn't think of any would we be reamed for throwing away this opportunity to bask in the light of gods representative.

The school staff trolled about, reminding us only of impending doom. "I hope you all have good questions" they would say.

"Lets all give him a warm round of applause." they shouted, as his immense person entered the room, rings flashing rays of light, his cufflinked sleeves swaying slightly, under one arm a large leather day planer was perched. He would walk to the front of the room, eyes squinting behind his gold rimmed glasses. Setting his planner down with a thud, he smacked then slowly licked his lips.

He usually opened his meeting with. "whose got the first question?" or the dreaded "I bet your all wondering why I'm here today." I even remember a, "How many of you know what sex is...... (a hushed silents) ..... Every hand in the room should be raised"



I don't know about you but I feel better when I laugh about things, and there are plenty of things to laugh at in retrospect. I have seen the comments about people trying to heal, try just laughing.
I know I'm going to get the comments "you should forgive them" and "there were positives, talk about those" but you know what? this is me, the real me, this is were I'm at, these are just a few of my hurts, this is one of the ways I deal with things, and I will try my damest to never allow any body or church to have as much control of my life as my family did. I really appreciate this blog, now I am not just another out of sight out of mind.

Know The Truth (email)

After hearing (Oct, 2005) about leaders at LFF trying to suppress someones contact with those who have left, this hit me.
What could be a corollary to:

"And you shall know the truth,. and the truth will set you free," John 8:32?

What if you don't know the truth? What could that make that person?

Like the young elephant kept and limited by chaining it to a stake, the lack of knowing the truth when it's older and much stronger keeps it not free. At will the mature elephant could break free but doesn't. The same chain or even rope keeps the older powerful creature from being free but the tether does not represent truth. It represents simple control.

Those who don't know the truth are said to be in the dark and in some cases maybe captive.

"And you shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free".

I have many deep injuries and painful memories from my experiences at LFF.
But though His grace and time, I'm being healed.
LFF is not the first LFF. There are several books written about such experiences.

I'm not trying to minimize the pain you feel.
I don't know how to fix the broken marriages, recover the years of lost family or the abuses done in the name of God.
I've heard the bitter tears of mothers who lost their dreams.
These two sentences don't even scratch the stories of pain and abuses or offer any justice.
But I do trust that God is the final judge and things will be leveled in the end.

Jesus said: Luke 4:18
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed

Jesus came to do more than just forgive of our sins. His healing the blind or feeding the 5000 speak to something more. Those have little to do with forgiveness. To heal the brokenhearted speaks of restoring the heart. At LFF it was the hearts and motives that were often assaulted by the leadership. Since most every person knows their own faults. It's an easy trap to fall into. I see my faults, they tell me I'm bad, I must be bad. Many were held by such condemnation.

So human heart can be broken or Christ wouldn't have said, He sent me to mend hearts. (again Luke 4:18)
Many of you have broken hearts, you came to LFF with them from how your parents did or didn't treat you or you were born and raised there. Maybe your heart was broken through a failed relationship or any of the other deep confusing blows this world offers tender hearts.

"And you shall know the truth,. and the truth will set you free".
"Above all else, guard your heart...
"He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,"

One of many books that have been helpful to me since leaving LFF has been, Waking the Dead. It speaks to the issues of the heart. It might help you put the LFF experience into perspective, correct some of it's doctrines and give you a vision of healthy fellowship.

The Father cares about you. He cares about your heart.

May your heart be tended by the Father's love, may you be healed in His timing and may His truth set you free.

In His Grace
With love to you,
A fellow sojourner

If you would like to dialog about this, please send email to fellow_sojourner@comcast.net
It will be treated anonymously, tenderly and privately, your heart has been burned enough already.

Thoughts...from the comment box

For me the simplest terms for the failure of the pastors at LFF is incredible arrogance and willful disregard for fellow humans. I believe the these two things have blinded them to the truth about themselves and what they have done. It has led them down a path where they have mistreated people and been part of a huge deception which involved ungodly relationships and the financial/administrative intergrity of the church leadership.

But, they still can't see it. They still don't get it. They still think they are right. They still think they understand and have answered all the people who have tried so hard, to tell them in so many ways, that these two issues have got to change. They still believe they have more integrity than all the rest of us. Even when we have watched and identified, to them, the lies.

There was/is a horrendous lack of humility about who they are and what capabilities they possess. Both the founding and current pastors (this refers to husband and wife teams) have a deeply ingrained belief that they possess more discernment, more wisdom, more skills and more compassion than the rest of the kingdom of God combined. I am not trying to be sarcastic. This is not an exaggeration about what they have stated about themselves. If you were there, you know what I mean.

Unfortunately, most of us were required to believe it, or at least submit to it (since it was not believable) in order to continue doing what we believed was "living for God".

Most spiritual insight, acute intellect, exceptional giftings or acts of kindness displayed by those beneath them had to be quickly quashed or shut down by their harsh criticism in order to keep people down under the "esteemed" roles of leaders.

Not to say encouragement didn't happen. If you were one of the "chosen" or if you were needed for some special project at hand you might receive some encouragement. Remember, I am talking about specific leaders. There was lots of encouragement among peers and friends. It wasn't a totally cold and hard place or none of us would've stayed.

Those with the courage to challenge the leaders or even ask innocent questions were also berated into submission or "squeezed out" of the fellowhip.

Because of this arrogance they never really submitted to any checks and balances for themselves. There were token balances of power presented to the congregation, but we did not know they were only "token" until much later.

These leaders also believed they "loved the deepest and the best" of anyone in the kingdom. Sadly, it's just not true. They were always amazed by the number of people who were hurt in their wake by their callous treatment inputed to those "under" them. They always answered in such a way to make the follower feel like they had sinned by being hurt. "You did not understand me or my heart or my wisdom" or "this is just how ministry training works."

Even though much has changed on the surface at LFF, and these are good changes, the two core issues haven't. The changes that have happened came more in a sense of acquiescing, "let's make it feel better and keep the people here". If these changes hadn't happened they would have lost the whole church at once, rather than the slow trickle now turning into a steady flow.

The amazing thing to me is that God has allowed them to remain blinded, deceived, or whatever word best describes it. They are sincere in their beliefs about themselves, their intentions and their actions. They really believe that we are a wicked web of disgruntled, back-biting, murmurers who don't have any merit and have turned our backs on them in their greatest time of need.

Incredibly, even in my own conversations with them (in the past year), they believe that "they"(LFF)are the only reason people have "become as good as they are" and that LFF doesn't get the "credit" they deserve for having "made these people who were nothing into something." They reminded me that I was included in the being "nothing" until they got ahold of me.

Well, I wasn't a nothing. I was a precious creation of God. A creation He delighted in. I was skilled, intelligent and great with people before LFF. A fallen creature, to be sure, but not one that lacked existence before my LFF experience. I was a Christian before. For those that got saved there, God could have used any instrument to draw you to Him. Know that LFF wasn't the key to your salvation, but His Spirit drawing you to Him was.

I think it is easier to identify what went wrong or is still wrong. But it is hard to put one answer out there for everyone who is hurting. There are many different types of experiences people had at LFF.

You have the PCS kids who didn't have a choice about growing up there. Their experience is very unique.

You have the parents who regret losing those child-rearing years and even some of the best years of their marriage.

You have those in the various mentoring/leadership programs.

You have those who were called "friends" by leadership and slaved for years to gain acceptance of those leadership "friends".

You have those men who were chosen by specific leaders for twisted soul relationships. These relationships warped even the marriages of those men to the point that their wives never fully owned their husbands in the way God intended.

You have those who were never high class enough to be acknowledged seriously by leadership but were valued for their labor.

There is not one pat answer to each group. I'm sure I don't have a complete list here. Some pain goes much deeper than others. Some can still relate to God, some can't. Some can forgive and just move on. Some can't. Some can leave LFF. Some can't. The problems are easy to see, the answers are not black and white. It does all stem from some disregard for fellow humans on some level.

Many of these people overlap into more than one group. These people served so faithfully, so willingly, so sacrificially, for so many years. They honestly loved each other very deeply. Yet they were made to feel they never quite cut it and still had so much sin and immaturity to get out of.

Many people gave everything. Yet these leaders still genuinely believe they have sacrificed more than anyone else. It's not a contest. I'm not trying to say who deserves what accolades. But for so many people to have poured out their lives and still be made to feel that all of this church mess is their fault and the leaders are innocent..... seems like the Bible holds the shepherds more accountable than the sheep.

I also need to say that all the hurt I may carry does not exempt me from my need for forgiveness and the precious blood of Christ. In the midst of the failure of these leaders, I was still a sinner who needed Jesus everyday. Still do. Not all of my problems stem from LFF.

In all fairness, maybe there is more understanding in the hearts of these leaders about what they have done. Maybe they have taken more responsibility before God. Maybe they see how they have treated those He gave them to care for. If this has happened, there will be evident fruit that follows such an understanding. There will be no question in any of our hearts if this ever happens. But, I can only hope and certainly can't stand around waiting for it.

Regardless, I want to live my life treating others with the dignity and respect they've earned just by being His creation. Beyond that to the greater commission, I want my life to reflect the great love He has for them to draw them to His salvation. I still want to stand before Him and hear Him say "Well Done".

Time Cannot Erase (email)

My Immortal - Evanesence (song download)

I'm so tired of being here.
Suppressed by all my childish fears.
And if you have to leave,
I wish that you would just leave.
your presence still lingers here,
and it won't leave me alone.

These wounds won't seem to heal,
this pain is just too real,
there's just too much that time cannot erase.

When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears,
When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears.
I held your hand through all of these years.
But you still have...
All of me.

You used to captivate me by your resognating light,
Now I'm bound by the life you left behind.
Your face it haunts, my once pleasant dreams
Your voice has chased away all the sanity in me.

These wounds won't seem to heal,
this pain is just too real,
there's just too much that time cannot erase.

When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears,
When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears.
I held your hand through all of these years.
But you still have...
All of me.

I tried so hard to tell myself that you're gone.
But though you're still with me,
I've been alone all along.

When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears,
When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears.
I held your hand through all of these years.
But you still have...
All of me.

This lyrics to this song say it all for me. Living Faith Felloship has caused me many tears, countless nightmares and persistent depression. I want so bad to forget it all. No matter how hard I try, my mind is plagued with confusion. Why did these things have to happen? Can't it all be erased? Now looking back, I can see how bad it really was. When I left LFF I went straight into another abusive relationship. I continually struggle with issues of self-worth. This site has given me a glimmer of hope, but just a glimmer. If you are one who still believes in God and prayer…please pray for me.

An outside observation (via e-mail)

I’m not a person who has ever gone to LFF, except for the occasional concert. I heard about this site from a former member who is now involved in another local church, but granted, this person didn’t grow up in Pullman or go to LFF for very many years.

I’m a pastor with curiosity. People who leave our church stop by and visit from time to time, without eggs, which I think is pretty normal…but I digress. I don’t pretend to know the experience you all have been through but judging from the visits and responses, the experience isn’t isolated. Which begs the questions “why” and “how” could things get this out of hand? If you were a pastor of church, what would you have done differently, sincerely? I’m sure these question are addressed somewhere, but I couldn’t navigate to the answer. I could make a wild guess at a few answers, but you know what assuming does. I ask these questions with respect, complete sincerity, and honesty. Love it or hate it, I want to learn from it. If a church has the ability to hurt that many people, I want to know what went wrong in simple terms as to never do the same.

On a side note, there have a been a lot of former LFFers come through, all with the same results: they left pretending like nothing was wrong, but about 6 months or so into going to a new church that wasn’t going to try to make decisions for them, they realized that their minds where like programmed to act, look, and think a certain way, but that “way” wasn’t really who they were. It was a façade. They where shocked to have their eyes opened, and most became very depressed because they questioned who they really where, and if, in fact, their faith was real at all, or if it was just part of the programming. It’s a sad thing to see people go from being ultra secure to ultra insecure in a matter of months, and not being able to do anything about it. …just thoughts from a outsider that’s been told the same story by different people coming from the same place.

As for me, my God is my God, and I’m glad to go to a place called church with people who believe in the same God. My God shapes my thoughts, not my church, and for that, I’m glad.

How do I know? (email)

I had heard about this blog long before I ever decided to visit. I was kind of afraid to. When I left LFF I tried desperately to get out of Pullman and with no luck. For a while it was hard enough to drive by the church everyday, see people in the grocery store and have them go into outreach mode at light speed, to run into Kari Vance on the stairs as I went to check the mail for work one day, let alone to actually deal with the hurt that was inflicted on me while attending LFF. Visiting this site made me face the reality that I too had been hurt like all these other people and your stories are like my stories and your pain looks and feels a lot like mine. I realized that I could continue to deny that this all existed inside of me and deal with it subconsciously for the rest of my life or I could just have it out right here and now and do the best I could to sort through it and not let them continue to have this hold on me that they have had for so many years. I have chosen the later and the rougher of the two paths but I think that I will be glad in the end.

It has been a long time since I have read my bible, just as long since I have felt comfortable worshiping (which was the one thing that got me through an abusive childhood and gave me so much joy in my life at one time) and a while since I have been to a church. The thought of doing any of those things still make my stomach turn to knots. When I hurt, I write. I refuse to write in a notebook however. While I was thinking about trying to attend another church and how good it might be to make new friends and be able to put the past behind me and move on I began to realize how I was feeling and I put it into the words below in the form of poem or a song. It is written to the Body of Christ as a whole, not just to LFF, from someone hurt by a wolf in sheep's clothing. I hope that in some way just as many of your entries bring healing to me this finds its way into your hearts as well.

How do I know you won't hurt me anymore
How do I know you won't lie to my heart
How do I know I can trust you again
How do I love you through the pain

I gave you years of my life, handed you my heart
My dreams and my plans still no matter how much I gave
It was never good enough for you
So how do I know

Shards of hurt remain in my soul
I can't go a day without your memories
They flood my mind like your abuse once did
Only time can clean up your mess.
But how do I know

You were supposed to hold my hand
Help me up when I fell down
Protect me, guide me and keep me safe
I gave you what you wanted
And now you ask me for it again
Still how I do I know

How do I know you won't hurt me anymore
How do I know you won't lie to my heart
How do I know I can trust you again
How do I love you through the pain

Can You Answer These Questions? (via email)

Everyone has a story. Everyone has some (or many) painful examples to share. It is obvious how tightly woven together we were, and still are, because EVERYONE knows about this site!

Some simple thoughts, hopefully! First, there is no denying the pain expressed on this site. People are all at different levels dealing with and healing from the pain. God Bless us through it. But I feel the pain (even my own) is secondary to a very important consideration. I can’t tell you how many people - still at LFF or gone -have said, “I pray you are healed from your hurts and you are able to forgive.” Let’s be realistic. Forgiveness and hurt are not the primary issues here.

Integrity and truth are the ultimate issue. I spent years forgiving hurts that were put upon me, whether maliciously or unintentional. I’m sure others forgave me of hurts I inflicted on them. We were there and willing to overlook/forgive these pains (even when we recognized those inflicting them were seriously messed up) because we believed we were serving Jesus, His greater cause and we hoped for a great work to be accomplished at His hand.

IT IS NOT MY FAULT THAT MY HEART FOR HIM WAS EXPLOITED BY LEADERS WHO DID NOT TELL ME THE TRUTH AND USED ME TO ADVANCE THEIR KINGDOM. Even as a member and then as part of the leadership team, I was not told the truth. I have quit beating myself up over “Why did I stay?” “Why did I waste my life there?” “I’m so stupid to have stayed!” Do I regret it, you bet. Do I wish I’d have done differently, uh huh! Do I think I am stupid. NO WAY. If I had known, I would have tried to bring change and then left earlier. In fact that is exactly how I left, just wish it would’ve been sooner. But do I know why I stayed? YES.

I trusted and believed there were checks and balances in place at levels of leadership to keep those aforementioned miscreants from coming into full power with their twisted sense of Christianity. I didn’t know that those at the top were the true masters of deception about how the church was managed and decisions made. There is no other way so many people, educated people, could have bought into this without trusting what they were told. But we didn’t know…. and I won’t carry the weight of guilt and shame for having tried to please Jesus.

The reason we trusted is simple…. Jesus and His Kingdom were used as leverage against us. How could we not believe they (the leaders) were giving all for Him, stewarding His kingdom and tapping into His wisdom? We were certainly working hard to do that ourselves. I still hope to be meeting that definition of Christendom according to the Bible. God, in His mercy, did bless many aspects of LFF but only because people with heart motives for Him gave so freely and willingly on His behalf. I also am convinced God brought to the leadership, both past and present, many opportunities to turn from their ways. I believe God would have blessed LFF mightily if they responded. I even stayed the last few years hoping for that change. Maybe God still would, but I don’t have as much hope for that as I once did.

I think everyone (especially those who remain) need to examine this list of questions. These are important to answer honestly about any leadership you would commit such loyalty to.

1. Do you trust Vances? Why or why not?

2. Do you trust what they say? Why or why not? What is that trust in their word based on?

3. Do you compare what they say to scripture? Why or why not?

4. Do you trust that they live by the same principles they teach? Why or why not?

5. Do you trust their representation of the Bardens? Why or why not?

6. Do you believe it’s ok for Vances or LFF to support the church in Port Ludlow in any way? Why or why not?

7. Do you trust their representation of their own marriage? Why or why not?

8. Do you trust their representation of their children? Why or why not?

9. Do you measure their pastoring against how scripture defines pastors? Why or why not?

10. Do you trust their representation of people who have left LFF? Why or why not?

11. Do you trust their representation of people who are still there? Why or why not?

12. Do you trust their representation on subjects brought up at members meeting? Are you aware of incidents where they did not accurately represent something you were part of, a meeting or an event? Are you aware of times when they sat silent while others shared inaccurately about incidents or events when they should have spoken up?

13. Do you know how decisions are made? Who has what authority to make what decisions? Are there any checks and balances? Why or why not? Do you know this based on their word or a proven and trackable record of decision-making?

14. Who decides how money is spent? Are there any checks and balances in the system? Why or why not? Is what you know just based on their word?

15. How are employees hired, treated and discharged? Who makes these decisions?

16. Who do the Vances seek out for their own advisory needs – personally and on behalf of the church? Do they seek this advice together as a couple?

17. Do the Vances have measurable job descriptions? Are you constantly feeling like they are soooo busy and such victims of the transition? Why or why not?

18. What role does Kari have, what is her authority and why?

19. If you are asked to participate in a “covenant” “core” or “commitment” relationship, what is the definition? What are the leaders responsibility to you in that? Is it primarily one way? Read Malachi 2:1-9

20. Do you feel Vances are qualified leaders you can follow or people you must continue to support because they’ve been so beat up?

Some may think these questions are not anyone’s business. But God’s Word makes plain the role and responsibility of pastors. They must give account to their congregation when their lives do not match up with God’s instructions. It is not wrong for those under their care to judge in this way. If you bring it to their attention, and then feel your own conscience is violated to continue to support them, you are free before God to get out!

This again is not about forgiveness. God does require us to forgive and that usually takes a lot of His help! For many people, forgiveness is a continual process. But even once we forgive, He does not require us to trust, agree, support, or get right with those we have conflict with once it is established that you cannot be reconciled.

There is no way God is going to hold me as accountable for my part at LFF as He will hold accountable the Pastor’s who knew (that is key since many of the pastoral staff were kept in the dark) what they were doing and why.