Questions via e-mail...

Dear Truth About LFF Blogspot Persons,

I came across the blog and read most of it. I have some questions about it that I hope you can answer. First, let me say that my husband and I are still attending LFF and we have been for 5 and 7 years. While we believe that no church is perfect and that LFF is certainly included in that statement, we haven't found anything so disturbing to make us leave. We think it's a good body and we have grown a lot here.

I do not think badly of you for making this website and pray for you all that your hurts will be healed and that forgiveness can come. I do not know what went on to make you leave, but I assume that each reason is very different. God Bless you as you grow in Him.

Anyway, my questions:

1. This blog seems really vague to me. Everyone seems hurt and mad at LFF but there are no specific instances of stuff that happened. Is this on purpose? I am curious to know what things happened to make people so hurt and angry at this church.

2. The files. I heard about these too and was upset. I went and talked to a pastor about this and asked straight up about these files. I was told that yes, files were kept, but they were in a locked file cabinet in the evangelism office. They were brief, no details and kept only for legal purposes, such as if someone tried to sue LFF for whatever. No pastors ever looked at these unless it was to add something to a file. I was told that the Vances decided to destroy ALL of these files and not to keep them anymore because it caused so many people to stumble. I was told that many churches kept files like this. However, on the blog there was a post about these files that said they were very, very detailed and had pictures, lists of sins, conversations, etc. Are you sure this person was telling the truth? How long ago did he/she find these files while vacuuming? Did s/he ever talk to anyone about them?

I know these are kind of long, but I am curious about these two items in particular. You can post these questions on the blog if you want, that way I may get some more opinions that just one person's.

Thank you

Question - Who is to blame?

A question from e-mail...

I was wondering if the mutual feeling was that only the people still in "leadership" are to blame or if everyone that was involved for many years still are blamed for their involvement?

I'm not sure how other people feel about this subject, but I hold no grudges against those that have admitted their failure in their involvement for so long and did repeatedly try to reach the "leadership" before leaving LFF.

I just want a few answers and some feedback on my feelings.

Even if this is not posted on the blog, (I understand that this question could be too volatile) could you send me feedback about what others may or may not have said on this subject.

Thanks!

P.S.
For all the kids from LFF: We're all going to be okay. That wasn't the end of our lives. And now we can dream really big and live life the way it was meant to be lived. There is no one to stop us. Live your dreams!!!!!!

We feel this is an issue that deserves a wider audience and are therefore bringing this e-mail to "the front page" to discuss it. First and foremost, none of us hold any grudges toward anyone involved past or present at LFF. Obviously we are not perfect and at times resentment gets the better of all of us but we are all working past that. We recognize that many people were involved in many ways at LFF and many of these people were manipulated into doing things they have since come to regret. It has become obvious to a great deal of people, that LFF does in fact ruin lives. Some may say that is a bold statement, but we are all still trying to overcome the stones cast in our paths. It is common for people like me, who have left the church, to struggle in finding God, and struggle even more in fitting into any kind of church structure. For instance, I love my current church, but every time I walk into a service, all my scabs from the wounds inflicted by LFF leadership, are instantly torn off. It is a true paradox in that attending church both slows and expedites the healing process.

The question seems to be, "Who is to blame for the pain?" I, for one, take the blame for allowing myself to be manipulated, exploited and abused. The entire structure and culture of LFF quickly sucks one in and it is easy to fall into the trap of allowing the lines to blur between church and God. We have found it important to keep in mind that there is a huge difference between forgiveness and reconciliation. We hate no one at LFF but the fact is the founding pastors and current pastors are stifling the spiritual growth of many. Arrogance has lead to abuse of power and gross misinterpretation of Scripture. Many of us have since been reconciled with much of the former and transitional LFF leadership.

During the church transition a lot of things changed. Pain found a voice and that voice was shot down. Those of us that were there as the Bardens relinquished power to the Vances saw a true opportunity to see LFF make large strides in the right direction. We also found those in the transitional leadership team felt the same way. Finally, our pain was acknowledged as real, and we were not scolded for our agony. As we related our hurts to most of the pastors who had been at LFF for years, they related. They took these issues to the top. Unfortunately, try as they may, those on the transitional leadership team had no success. They were silenced as well; the Vances would have none of it. Pastors, care leaders, and members were forced out, many of them for trying to help many of us. True the current leadership will say, God called them somewhere else, and thankfully he did. But those who left had been there for much of their lives and the reason for the departure was due largely in part to their silenced voices. Their efforts are greatly appreciated by all of us and many of us maintain strong relationships with these people as they helped shoulder our burdens.

Again, we hold no grudges and if any of us find unforgiveness finding a foothold in our lives we work hard to rid ourselves of that. So while reconciliation has come to many relationships there are some that all logic would say will never be reconciled. There was a pattern at LFF set into to motion by the founding pastors and assisted and now carried out by the new senior pastors. This pattern of abuse of power, manipulation, nepotism, and the destruction of many people's fragile relationships with God, is wrong. By being silent, we have seen more people hurt and lost and we cannot do so any more. Though we will most likely never be able to break this cycle with our words we may save others from the same pain. For decades now people have tried to stop the abuse and sin at LFF and for decades they have failed. It would be foolish of us to think that in somehow this website would lead to other results. We can call attention to the the hurt and that which causes it. In doing so we hope to aid in both our own and your healing.

The Idea of Grieving

More E-mail: (No, we have not abandoned posting, but we wanted to get more of these e-mails we keep getting up onto the site.)

As a kid who grew up at LFF, I am very well acquainted with the pain, hurt and anger that my past brings up. All of us visiting this site and expressing our emotions and feelings are at different levels of healing. Most of us have moved away or cut ourselves off from LFF. Like many of you I moved away from Pullman, but because I still have ties to Pullman and LFF through family, I find myself returning there once in a while. I often re-live those feelings and emotions the minute I set foot in Pullman and especially so when I walk through the doors of the church. Images flash through my mind and I can hear conversations that make my insides want to curl up and die.

I remember being back there at Easter one year and I had geared myself up to be strong. I had been gone a while and I thought I had dealt with my personal issues with LFF. I was choosing to forgive and move on with my life. They were not going to drag me down any longer. I marched right through those doors and I swear, everyone who caused me the most pain and hurt that was still attending that church managed to run into me and greet me like I was some long lost friend. It took everything within me to plaster a smile on my face and respond to them civilly. I was angry, so angry. Why did it take me going away from LFF for these people to realize I even existed? How could they possibly greet me so warmly when they had completely ignored me in the past and through many things inadvertently made my life a living hell…not to mention the times they actually DID made my life a living hell?

The feeling and emotions hit my defense wall like a giant wrecking ball. I felt defeated…they had gotten the best of me…again. I felt hopeless and wondered if I would I ever be able to put this behind me. Later as I was contemplating the feelings and emotions this situation evoked, I came to this revelation. It is the concept of the Grieving Process.

All of us ex-LFFers have lost something because of our exposure to LFF. For some of us that might be innocence, our values and beliefs and trust in people especially leadership of any kind. Maybe we have lost faith, hope, and the ability to forgive. It may be that we have lost relationship with our families or even in some cases we have lost our own children. This loss, once realized can lead to gut wrenching waves of grief.

This outline is simply to help you identify or give a name to what you may be going through if you find that helpful. You may have seen it before but I expounded on each point as it relates to LFF.

The process goes like this.

Denial and Shock:

Do you remember when you first became aware of what was really going on around LFF? For me it was a gradual process but when you grow up in something like this you don’t necessarily know anything different until you are outside the walls.

Anger:

Need I say more…We are all angry. Angry at the pastor that told us we were in sin for a myriad of things like having boy/girl relationships in high school...you fill in the blank. Or the pastor that screamed at me for not asking her how to turn on her vacuum cleaner before I even got the cord off the unit while I was her servant (slave) minister. Angry at those pastor kids, who thought like their parents, they could thumb us into submission. Being yelled at for other people's "sins." Anger toward people who refused to hear us out and jumping on us for our sins when we dared ask for help. Angry that we were forced to suppress our feeling and not being allowed to stand up for ourselves. Living in fear of going to school because we never knew which pastor was going to jump out of the blue carpet and yell at us. The list goes on and on and on.

Bargaining:

This means you make deals with God in return for favors, healing, etc.

Guilt:

You may find yourself feeling guilty for things you did or didn’t do. I think that regret easily fits into this step as well. Here you have to learn to forgive yourself. We are human and in many cases, we weren’t able to see what was really happening in this particular situation.

Depression:

I think all of us have been through varying degrees of this step. Simply put, it doesn’t feel good to be used and abused. The efforts of trying to forgive and move on are difficult, especially like in my case when I thought I had conquered it or at least gotten a grip on it.

Loneliness:

As you go through changes in your social life because of leaving LFF it’s natural to feel lonely and afraid. I personally have found that as I have taken tiny steps forward, God has brought people into my life that I have been able to befriend and the feeling of loneliness doesn’t come up as much. Don’t get me wrong, it is hard to make friends and restore bridges of relationship we have burned because LFF told us to. But don’t lose heart it will happen in time. I refer you to Twisted Scriptures at this point. It has some good advice to moving on after getting out.

Acceptance:

Here I stress: ACCEPTANCE DOES NOT MEAN HAPPINESS OR FORGIVING AND FORGETTING! It simply means you accept the reality that this happened to you. It was a part of your past and it was painful, but it is behind you and you can move on if can accept that fact.

Hope:

Eventually, as you reach this point, you will find memories and the things that trigger strong emotional responses will be less frequent and less painful. Realistically, the scars are there and they are not going to go away. But like in the acceptance stage, you will able to see past them. You might even be able to remember some good times because I bet every one of us has at least one good thing or relationship that evolved during our time at LFF. You are not alone and we can help each other.

Sometimes I feel I have gone through this process for each individual painful memory or thought from my past. With some of them I am still far away from resolution. It’s going to take time. Some days are better than others are. But when I allow myself to go through this grieving process for the things I have lost, I know it’s okay to feel and to allow time for forgiveness to bring healing. I have had success in dealing with some issues as I have worked through this process so I know there is hope to be found here.

Don’t be afraid to grieve because it is how healing takes place. We have all lost things that are important to us and it has been very painful, but God will bring healing for us by His grace and love if we let Him. Just be patient. Give yourself time to go through the process and let the healing take place. We can find support in God and each other as we grieve our losses and find the hope for tomorrow.

healing

via email...

Healing is bittersweet. It is beautiful ...and liberating ..and painful ...and takes time.

One can not "dig up" the issues to heal them, but must patiently wait and face them one at a time. There was a time when I tried to rush the healing and force it sooner, but the pain of disappointment, regret and shame nearly overwhelmed me, threatening me to depression. It was robbing me of my joy and hope today by trying to deal with the past too much at once. Then, the wrong voices of the past of "don't talk about it, you're sowing discord, you're in sin" would haunt my mind and I would fall again to the prey of the lie that kept it all inside, empowering the lies even further.

I would like to say to each of you walking this path of redemption, of freedom, of forgiveness and true grace in God, there is hope. There is healing, there is life, there is acceptance and peace and true joy. There is a place where you learn to trust again. But it takes talking and it takes time. That's why I think this site is such a beautiful tool for those who need to find validation of the experiences they went through. Support for the things you are feeling or have felt. It's OK - it is a vital part of the healing process and you need to talk. I know, people who haven't been there or gone through these things can not relate...they think you exaggerate or make it up, which can only add to the lies that swirl in your soul. No, it was real. It was wrong. It was ungodly. It was hurtful. It is over. Thank God, it is over.

May you be free to fly, free to love, free to trust and free to be whole again! Jesus Christ is full of hope, grace, love, peace, compassion and does not love you conditionally as you may have been taught. After nearly 20 years of learning about "God" at LFF, I have come to realize I did not really know the true God at all. It's been a beautiful learning process and so much more simple than I could have ever imagined. It has nothing to do with me, my efforts, my reading, my service, my filthy rags...it is entirely and only because of the Blood of Jesus. Thank God. Enjoy Him in simplicity and love again!

The Pressure Cooker

Contributed via e-mail...

If you've ever considered what life would be like under a microscope spend some time on the "leadership track" at LFF and you'll find out very quickly. The microscope, in my case, was always there, and created a pressure cooker under which even the strongest of people could only survive for so long. You may ask what that pressure cooker was comprised of. Consider having your skills, energy, ideas and time used on a daily, weekly, monthly and yearly basis (for free mind you). You feel as though you finally start to break into something you feel called to do or just simply enjoy. But wait, not so fast. Isn't there something in your life holding you back? Yes, there must be some sin that requires a second look and prevents you from actually achieving the desires of your heart. Mistakes are used to control your every day. Mentally there is no escape, there is no relief from the pressure. Everywhere you look there are eyes watching you, ears listening, monitoring, keeping tabs. What kind of fruit is being produced? Did hands go up in worship? Is there enough dancing? How about speaking in tongues? Are they smiling? Reaching out? Are they "pressing in" to leadership? What kind of example are they setting? Oh, by the way, why are you behind in your bible reading and your spiritual notebook? It's not simply enough that you go to church on Sunday, and Wednesday, and Friday, and Saturday, but you must be available for additional service at the drop of a hat. I haven't even mentioned that you're struggling in keeping up with a full-time job and school/family. This is what my life was comprised of for years. This is to speak nothing of having any time for personal relationships or recreation of any kind. My recreation consisted of being available for projects for pastoral staff and the nonstop events that kept your mind and body occupied 24/7. It wasn't until I stepped back from the church, and broke free from the control, that I realized what true life could be like. Because I am a volitional being I understand that I am the one who chose to stay there as long as I did. Looking back I wish I was stronger and could see the incredible effect it had on my life and the lives of my family. I am thankful that my children will never understand the pain that I went through. I wish this experience on no one. I take full responsibility for buying into the sales tactics and lines that were fed to me, and am glad that now I can begin the rebuilding process. The struggle begins now, in real life, learning what a true relationship with Jesus Christ means. I now must find out what is real to me. I struggle walking into other churches and hearing the same lingo and seeing some of the same practices. I feel that every church is a sales platform, although I know it's not true. It is difficult for me to distinguish between sincerity and manipulation. As the pressure increases, the cooking temperature rises.

Math

More e-mail...

I, one of many former and hurt followers of the institutionalized pain that is LFF, was reading the current posts and it came to mind, once again, how in the world does that place maintain the number of people that they have? Truly, with the number of people that I personally know who have chosen to "backslide" in recent years, I almost thought the whole place would eventually "backslide" right off the top of that unholy hill! But, after some thought I've come to realize, that the success of LFF is due in large part to it's presence in a college town. That is to say, everything there (for the most part) is built upon the back breaking labor of young people and college students. I have only in my private thoughts (until now) at times likened it to a giant organism, that feeds on the blood of the great number of people it seduces. Most of whom are young and vital. Some realize that they are being sucked dry and struggle free, while others, with the proboscis of the giant parasite still in their veins, sing the villain's praises.

But, I digress my interest was how they maintain their numbers. True, many people have seen the light and wriggled free of the monster's grasp, but still it seems there is always someone eagerly waiting to replace them as the victim in the feed trough. The secret to the success of this great eater, as with any other is turnover. A practice that is especially effective in this town where more than half the population is replaced every four years. Now, not to disregard those victims who are permanent residents, but the fact remains that this is a place that to a large extent people are "passing through". From one stage of life to another, childhood to adulthood or
from one job to the next.

A college town is a transitional town. That is why the great "recruiters" and the "disciplers" frequent these places, they prey upon people who want their lives to mean something, so they tell them their life "means something to us", or "to God", or even "We know how you can change the world", etc. All things people in transitional stages of life like to hear.

But, I digress again. Turnover is what sustains LFF. Why do you think they have such a massive "outreach" program, for the freshmen? Why are they always scrambling to be on both campuses as soon as the first bell rings each semester? Why is the lemonade stand so gosh darn important to be involved with? And heck, why is it the popular hangout spot every semester? I shall attempt to explain: With a church whose attendance is approximately, say 700, and whose efflux is say 150-300 per year, you would of course need to replace all those bodies. Now, if we take just the college populations of Moscow and Pullman to be 25,000, (I will conservatively estimate 10,000 and 15,000 respectively), and assume that 1/4 or 6,250 of those are incoming freshmen, understanding soon dawns. All that is needed to counterbalance the efflux of persons with an influx to match of people who have never even heard of LFF is less than 4.8% of the incoming crop of blood suckee potentials! NOW THAT IS DO ABLE! I would love to end on a happier note, but as long as there are freshmen, there will be LFF's, it's sad, but the numbers don't seem to lie. LFF is still here after years of ruining lives.

As PT Barnum once said: "There's a sucker born every minute."

Well, this is one sucker that doesn't like lollipops anymore!

Editor's note: This e-mail was not sent anonymously. However, though the author is not afraid to be named, we have chosen to withhold their identity. It has long been a common practice at Living Faith Fellowship to point out whatever flaw can be found in those voicing their opinions. We wish to protect the author from once again being placed under the LFF microscope. Though ad hominem arguments are never sound; LFF has been far to successful in the application of this fallacy.

He

Via e-mail....

He (Jars of Clay)

Don't try to reach me
I'm already dead
The pain when it grips me
For things that I've done

Well I try to make you proud
But for crying out loud
Just give me a chance to hide away
Exhaustion takes over
Will this someday be over?

Fearful tears are running down
The pain you've laid don't speak a sound
Don't take my heart away from me
And they think I fell down.....again

Daddy don't you love me
Then why do you hit me?
And Momma don't you love me
Then why do you hurt me?

Well I've tried to make you proud
But for crying out loud
Just give me a chance to hide away
Exhaustion takes over
Will this someday be over?

Fearful tears are running down
The pain you've laid don't speak a sound
Don't take my heart away from me
And they think I fell down.....again

A teardrop falls
From up in the heavens
Drowning the sorrow of angels on high
For the least of the helpless
The hopeless, the loveless
My Jesus, His children,
He holds in His arms

He loves you, He sees you,
He knows you, protects you,
He needs you, He holds you

Commenting

This site was started by a group of former members of LFF. As has been said before, we write for many reasons, yet, none of those reasons are to in any way to hinder someone's relationship with God. This site quickly evolved beyond any of our imaginations. It has much more traffic than any of us ever expected. It is starting to take shape as a forum on the abuse of members and former members of LFF. Many people have written e-mails expressing their own pains, relating their own personal struggles and their steps toward healing. A select few of these e-mails have made it up onto the blog and some still will. As a result of the numerous questions that have come in via e-mail, we will start and maintain another website that aims to answer the most frequently asked questions we receive about Living Faith Fellowship. There is a link to it at the bottom of this post.

As the administrators of this site we realize that as people comment on here, they will be writing from different stages of the healing process. Therefore, the comments are the views of their author and not necessarily the views of those maintaining this blog. Many of the comments are in fact the views of the hosts, but we can not be responsible for what is said by the readers. We in no way wish to censor the views of anyone who visits here. We welcome and respect all opinions. In rare circumstances, if a comment is deemed vulgar or has outbound links to inappropriate material, it will be removed. We welcome a healthy exchange of thoughts and opinions on this site. This is something that was not possible at LFF and we, in no way, wish to replicate that environment on our site.

Thank you to all of you who have commented and e-mailed thus far. We appreciate all of your kind words and the overwhelming support in your e-mails. Frankly, we never imagined this site would touch so many people so quickly. Yet, judging by the sheer volume of hits we have received and the amount of e-mails you all have sent, the word has gotten out. We hope those of you who were hurt by this church will find healing. We will keep you all in our thoughts and prayers.

Answers to Questions About Living Faith Fellowship

suggested reading

I suggest you read the book Twisted Scriptures. It is available on Amazon.com and Half.com.

The editorial review:
Leaders of many religious groups (even including several mainstream churches) are twisting the Scriptures to subtly coerce cooperation from their members. In the process, personalities are changed and lives ruined. Mary Alice Chrnalogar is a deprogrammer with an international reputation. Chrnalogar reveals how classic mind control techniques are used to systematically seduce followers into total obedience. Twisted Scriptures: A Path To Freedom From Abusive Churches shows readers how to tell when churches are suppressing freedom of speech, intimidating followers, and distorting the Bible. Twisted Scriptures is invaluable as a self-help guide and as a tool for families and friends to free loved ones from destructive groups.

For those who have attended Living Faith Fellowship, the first chapter will be eerily familiar. For those who are attending currently, this will give you a heads up on what to be aware of and look out for.

Read the first chapter free on amazon.com. You will be amazed.

My "Rebellion"

I hate how you stole the joy from my pursuit of God. I had pure intentions. At first the God I knew brought peace to my life. The God I knew was the same God that David knew in the Bible--a God of power and strength, one of understanding and love.

Somehow, you leaders at LFF, convinced me that God and LFF and your "vision for my life" were all the same thing, and all were in favor of guiding me to the same end. Somehow I ended up believing the lie that your impressions of my goals and behaviors were in line with God's. Where you get the audacity to play god to anyone I will never understand. How you have the confidence to stand there and speak as if you are speaking for Him in full knowledge of His full power is beyond me. It is heresy!!!

I loved to worship God. That was my passion and my reason for living. You took that away from me by putting stumbling blocks in my way that turned my passion into confusion. You tried to manipulate my passion for worship toward service of you and your systems. What was once a joy became a pain that not only hurt me emotionally but had a real physical effect through undue stress and related affliction.

I have usurped the authority you tried to take over me. I broke the hold of control that you had on my mind, my heart, my decisions and my emotion. The anger that drives me now is not anger at you and your putrid past influence but an indignation of intolerance toward your continued efforts to deceive and control. While I have escaped there are many still who fall victim to your sick system and your seduction.

My departure may have no effect on you whatsoever, but to me it is everything. I don't want to live my life as a testament to the destructive nature of LFF. To turn from God and claim your past influence as a reason would be giving you far more satisfaction than you really deserve. No, I will live the rest of my life with a trust in God and God alone. Never again will I trust a church system to take any part of what should be between God and I. I will live for God with a renewed devotion that has no basis in anything I ever learned from you. Instead I will live as a complete opposite of what you stand for.

the persecuted

(per·se·cute) To oppress or harass with ill-treatment, especially because of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or beliefs.

Many times I sat in a room full of people and listened to the speaker explain why we as a church should ostracize certain individuals. Individuals who either had different views or beliefs or whose actions “reeked" of rebellion. Many times did we hear that these individuals were "persecuting" the church. And many times did we hear, "When you see them in the store, avoid them, God is sorting the chaff from the wheat. This church is hard to get in to, but easy to get out."

This is a far cry from the Biblical seventy times seven. I am sure that if things were handled even-headedly as well as with one of the greatest commandment of all in mind, "love your neighbor as your self," there would have been a reasonable outcome. But the church was and is content to heap persecution upon those people who “persecute,” destroying what shards of faith they still desperately cling to. This disdain from the church community left such distaste for God and the church that they effectively, "burned the wheat along with the chaff." The hateful treatment of people with unique points of view at the hands of the church has crippled many peoples' walk with God. People could have walked away like the uniquely created person they are, with out all this embarrassment. But that wasn't possible. Letting them walk away without hurling insults and holding their flaws up like trophies would have brought questions to the remaining members.

The church has no place in instructing and training people and children how to persecute or shun those who many times were right (the millstone around neck verse comes to mind). Why would you knowingly, poison the minds of children? This is how things like racism, can be instilled in the minds of children. The Bible says, "We are uniquely and wonderfully made," that includes all aspects of each of our lives. It is not the place of the leadership of the church, nor is it the church's to bring conviction and or punishment, on its members, that should be left to God. But then again, to your members you are god.

Tonight

I was walking tonight, trying my best to find my way. At times it was easy, but sometimes there was nothing but confusion. I asked you for clarity but received only ridicule. I should have known questions are not tolerated. Nevertheless, I continued, surely this journey would lead me home. I followed your advice and did as you said, for to me, your words were God's. Yet try as I may, my best attempts were never good enough, somehow, someway; you always managed to highlight my flaws. Can't you see the desire in my eyes; can't you see I am trying?

I am falling tonight; I can see the ground so quickly approaching. I call for your help, hoping that maybe you will catch me after all these years of holding you up. But my cries fall on deaf ears, and the impact lies imminent.

I am crying tonight, broken from my fall. "Come help me," I plead, "I have fallen farther than I ever thought possible." But you scold me; you belittle me for falling. You rebuke me for not seeing the stone you put in my path, and heap guilt upon me for lying here broken. I was wrong to ever expect your assistance; you tolerate nothing less than perfection.

I am better tonight. I picked up the pieces alone and I continue on my journey. But you will have nothing to do with me. You tripped me and now ostracize me for falling. I followed your advice right off this cliff and must now find the light without you. My search continues, this time unabated by your unnecessary burdens and obstacles.

Hindsight is 20/20

From cougster.com:

I used to go to that church, for my entire freshman year. From what I've heard since, they take notes on what you say and do there. From what I've experienced, they want you involved with everything you could possibly do...if you don't come, you get a barrage of phone calls. One friend of mine signed up for a Bible study but decided not to get involved, and, no joke, someone would call her EVERY DAY and ask if she wanted to go.

There are so many other things about that church that just freaked me out. As for the guns, I don't know about that, but I highly doubt it.

Oh, one other thing. They are inSANE about relationships...people are always butting into your business, no one will make a decision without meeting with a "leader" or whatever, and most couples I know there wouldn't even do things alone (like go to Spokane for a day) because of what others might think. And if you start dating someone, they're immediately pushing for you to get married.

I am so glad I'm out of there!

Another ex-member's story from cougster.com:

I went there for awhile as well. SOO glad to be out of there. They all have plastic smiles that never fade. Seriously, it's creepy. They want you to be super involved in everything they do but they say that they don't. Pretty much if they say it is one way then it is probably another. It probably sounds ridiculous but it's true. If you know anyone from there you know exactly what I'm talking about. Ask them about the Pastors that left. They really hate that subject.

fallen

The designers of this system will deny incredulously that they hurt and drive people away. Instead, they are refining. In a Gideon like purification process, the fat has been trimmed away. All that is left to do is to conquer. They will talk of the fallen in feigned and sometimes genuine sadness, shaking their heads as if they had tried all they could to prevent the falling. Pretending they never threw stumbling stones at the feet of searching souls, all the while ignoring the tears of frustration and confusion cried by those who didn’t want to leave the place that once was life. They will apologize, don’t you worry, but not for what they have done, that they will deny. They will only apologize for the “way they made you feel” as if the actions that caused these feelings are in some way justified by a six letter prefix to their names, pastor.

They reassure the remaining, "Those who have fallen away were never devoted in the first place. They refused to let the work of God be done in their lives." 20 years of commitment was not devotion, at least not in the end. 25 years of tears are washed away by the ones who feel their own are more valuable and more heartfelt. 25 years of commitment are overlooked in an effort to find those who will support without questioning.

Years of service have been wasted on the ones who teach humility and service by offering programs where people are used to make the lives of the teachers better. Service and humility taught through degrading bouts of anger administered through the raised voices of those training the servers.

And when the load becomes too much, so that those bearing it would snap if they did not regretfully walk away from efforts proven futile, they walk. And as they walk away, the love that was promised and feigned for years on end…ceases. Casual, awkward smiles do little to conceal the true thoughts of the ones who remain.

"How could you abandon us?" the innocent ask. They will never understand nor would they believe the things that went on behind closed doors. Their minds and bodies are too weak to believe that they have been deceived. It would break them too far. They will continue to serve a cause that is, sadly, little more than the words used to describe it, causes with introspective goals labeled as causes to save the world from itself and all its evil.

Oh they will gloat in the downfall of the fallen. And they will joy in the proof that our lives offer to their rhetoric, "If you leave you will fail." But they choose to only see what they want to. It is easier to look at the failures and indiscretions of the wandering than to admit that in some ways they are to blame for the searching and stumbling. But we are stronger than they think and in many ways we will thank them for giving us the steely nature that sustains us in a place that accepts us better than they ever knew how. They did not win and we will not fail…but the cycles will repeat.