Got Christ?
How many people are still Christians after LFF?
moderator's note: Let's get the discussion going. DPR!!!
Friday, March 16, 2007
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a church in Pullman, Washington
About Me
- Innocence Destroyed
- We are an unlikely group of former members of Living Faith Fellowship recounting our experiences, pains and victories. Some left on good terms but still deal with the pain. Others left regretfully with tears of frustration hot on their faces and still deal with the pain. This blog is meant to shield others from the heartache, help in healing the countless wounded and perhaps provide a roadmap out for people who are still abused and hurting. Feel free to email questions, comments and contributions to us.
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26 comments:
I am. I feel closer to God to have a real biblical knowledge of him, rather than man's messed up views.
My husband and I are still christians though we have abandoned the charismatic "contemporary" church for a little more conservative, grounded, traditional church. It has a contemporary service but lacks all of the "hype" found so prevalent in today's monster churches. Honestly, all the big churches here are a bit nauseating to me and I find myself doubting their sincerity. I don't hold that against LFF, in fact I think it's good to not just accept all things religious with blind eyes. We SHOULD question, we SHOULD look for sincerity and for spiritual leaders who aren't all about prospering financially...etc. etc. etc. I'm finally happy in church again and my kids will grow up knowing the LOVE and GRACE of Jesus Christ. Lucky them...
My husband & I still are though the past 1.5 years has been shaky as we come out from under the legalistic teachings of LFF. We're just now (almost 10 years after leaving) getting a vision of what GRACE really means and learning to trust again. Sad to think we lost almost 20 years of our lives - almost 10 years there + almost 10 years post-LFF - to their skewed teachings. Thank God for the Christians He's brought into our lives since then who have helped us.
I first encountered LFF over 30 years ago, have been gone for 15 years, and am still a Christian - although not the same kind as I was at LFF. My experience has been that life is not as black and white as we were taught it is while at LFF. I have many questions and doubts, but I know that God is good, true, and faithful. Most of all, He is full of grace - and I will always need that grace.
I am now a very spiritual person but I do not believe in hell or sin anymore so I am not a christian. I believe we humans make our own hell here on Earth. And so many things are done poorly in the name of God by we mere mortals. I am more about the Goddess and peace and love and kharma and good deeds and yoga and NOT judgement and negative unacceptance which is what I got from LFF.
not sure...not sure at all
No. I felt for a long time after I left LFF that if Christianity was true then LFF got it right. I felt that I was just not good enough. I still believed, mostly, in Christianity for several years after I left and tried going to an American Baptist church for a while. Then a friend of mine asked me if she could do a 'bible study' with me where she basically told me about her 'church's ' beliefs based on the bible. I really started to investigate the bible during this study, and I came to believe that there is no way to really know if Jesus was really the Messiah, and no reason to believe in the bible at all. I have become an Agnostic. I don't know if Christianity is true, it has no greater claim to truth in my mind than many other ideas. I am more drawn to the idea of no god(s) and nothing after death.
I would say I that I am still a Christian but a different kind of Christian. Like what was said earlier, things may not be so black and white as I was raised to believe. I have found a new and what I believe is a true definition of grace for my life. While it's been a rocky road spiritually for me coming out of LFF, I feel I am stronger today and more at peace today then I ever was there. I rather enjoy my life now and being happy...instead of living in constant fear and condemnation that God and the leadership was out to get me.
so true Stacey, so true. I tend to not want to associate myself as a "Christian" because that give the immediate connotation of being judgmental and having a "higher than thou" attitude.
I believe in Jesus and God and Heaven, but I don't believe that we must go to church every week or even 6 times a week. I don't believe that it's impossible to know God without being preached about God. I believe that many of the fundementalist Christians are whats wrong with this country. We have christian leaders preach about hatred in the name of God (ie homosexuality, abortion etc) we have christian leaders who throw our troops into a battle that is not our to fight. We have christian leaders being CEO's of major corporations that push political agendas rather than what is good for our bodies and our earth.
There is so much coruption in the christian community, that I've identified myself as a believer in God, but not a prescriber to religion
Kal
I left LFF because of strong disagreements with its doctrine and joined another church. At first I didn't realize how psychologically damaging it had been because I continued in the same patterns and behaviors that I had learned there.
After awhile I came to disagreed with the doctrine of the church I'd moved to and quit going to church all together. Through my interactions with people that attended church and their poor witnesses I began to question what I believed. I finally came to realize that much of what I believed was based on things I had just accepted as being true because of how I was raised.
A Hugh turning point in my life occurred when I took a philosophy class and really started thinking for myself. I am thankfully no longer a Christian nor do I believe in God.
Wow, quite a variety of comments. I'm not so sure that all of these conclusions can be "blamed" on lff...? I think some probably are directly related, but I also think we all go through a process in life and make our decisions based on so many things. I have found it even more true than ever that God is real and that He loves me. My struggle after leaving lff has been more with Christians and I suppose mostly with Christian leaders than with God. God has always been constant. His Word has always been true. Unfortunately there will always be people, even well meaning ones who do make life hell on earth for us. I want my kids to know a God of love and grace and I'm grateful to have found a Bible based church as well that has balance. It also has accountability. It has its priorities in order. It's very balanced and full of faith and love and truth about God. It is not concerned about being on the "cutting edge" of everything. There are open discussions and opinions and ideas discussed. No one is threatened by this. They are honest discussions and honest questions raised. There is no reason to be threatened by honest questions and we all have different views. I guess that is the most refreshing thing for me is that I can be me. I don't have to try to be good enough for anyone. I don't have to "share" if I don't want to. Or if I do want to, I don't have to worry about being "talked to" later. I have searched in many churches and have found many, prideful people behind the pulpit. I'm sad that there are so many out there, but once you've been at lff you spot them pretty quickly. I will never attend that type of church again. The church I attend is old and has heating and cooling issues and an "old" feel to the building, furniture, and even some of the people, ha! That's actually nice too. :) But the pews are full and the people are genuine and the messages are always straight from the word. LFF was a very sad place for me. Even my family memories with my husband and children are not fond memories for me because it is all tainted with so much depression and anxiety. I am able to still love God and call myself a Christian. I don't believe in hell either. Some of you may think that makes me not a Christian, but whatever. The Bible doesn't say "believe in hell and thou shalt be saved" so I think I'm okay. There is an interesting history there that has to do with the Catholic church and causing fear in believers in order to control them and to get money in the offering. After leaving lff, it was interesting to me how three different times in one year I found myself in a service where the message was "consider these facts..." I personally find that hell, in the sense that it is eternal torment in fire" is a pretty evil form of torment for anyone. Shoot, even Texas hasn't tried that one as a death penalty. However, I do believe the Bible is clear that there is some type of consequence and that it is not a good thing. I don't believe it is eternal burning and torment though. I think it arrogant of anyone to think they have all of the answers. There's my 2 cents worth. Hope you all have a great day!
If Christianity is based on what is taught from most of the pulpits in Evangelical or Charismatic (very little difference really), then I would have to say, No, I am not a Christian.
If Christianity is based on knowing God in an intimate way that I have nothing to prove, then yes I am a Christian.
Somehow, whenever people get mixed up in religion, we mess everything up. Christ is not a matter of don't touch, don't drink, don't do this. It is a matter of any barrier between us an God being gone. If you understand the whole idea behind Christ's death, it wasn't so that we would have to prove our worthiness. Christ alone is worthy, and as we are in Him, we are worthy in God's sight. If that's the kind of Christianity we're talking about, then yes, I am a Christian.
Peace and love, John B.
It is very sad to read how people who once considered themselves christians no longer do because of what people have done to them or that they drink or have gay friends. Do you think Jesus didn't drink (wine) or wouldn't have gay friends? If you think you lost your christianity over these things than were you EVER a christian to begin with? I'm not trying to pick on anyone - my point is just this...It wasn't Jesus who constantly was dissapointed in us and judged us daily, it was the leadership of LFF. Jesus is full of grace and would never treat us as they did. So many of you are blaming other christians for your loss of christianity. How sad that you give hypocrites in the kingdom of God more power over your lives than God. I feel sad because obviously LFF did not teach real christianity and some of you are missing out on experiencing God's real love and real grace in your lives.
Very true. Well said.
I wasn't judging you Stacey. I drink and yet am still a christian. I have had gay friends and yet think that makes me a better christian. I am not about judging and that was not the intent of my post. My point was that you are a christian if you receive what Jesus did for you NOT based on what you do that YOU consider unworthy of his love. That's the problem that LFF created. They made us all feel as if God's love was conditional because their love was conditional. I am so sorry if you feel I was judging you - I felt bummed that you would give up on God because LFF had hurt you so bad because you used to love him so much and there could still be room in your life to include him. If you don't want to be a christian that is one thing but your reasons for why you felt you weren't just seemed like you forgot what it was really all about. God doesn't expect us to be perfect or he wouldn't have given us the gift of salvation. It was only LFF that expected perfection. I just can see that they really deeply hurt you but you shouldn't have to give up your salvation because of them. I chose anonymous because I faced years of judgment too and can't bear anymore of it. I am so sorry if it came off like I was judging you, it really was the opposite. I assure you I was your friend in those days and would never venture to hurt you.
I am still a Christian. Christain in it's truest meaning is "Christ Like." I do strive for this. I always said from the time I was little and gave my life to Christ to the time when I moved to Pullman to go to school and encountered LFF, to loosing a family member in an unnecessary tradgedy...that I would live for God no matter what.
I have succeeded but many times just barely. Something that I have learned is that people are people inside the church and outside the church and God is not people...
He still loves me...
Yeah, I have to say that I am happier than I have ever been as well. Since I have become an agnotic I have not thought once of suicide (though the thought had occurred to me several times when I was a “Christian”). I feel happy and free. The stress of trying to be something I am not, to try to please people and god, are gone (well not totally gone, I am still a bit of a people pleaser but not the the extent I was, and I don't hang around with manipulative people anymore). I learned from this site that the Christianity I knew was not the popular belief (I still don't really know what is the right kind of Christian; it still seems to me that even though the leadership was corrupt, the teachings were sound for what Christ (not Paul) taught). I just can't live under that yoke anymore. I feel that it is not natural, and therefore not real. Christianity, or rather LFF, would say that because it is not natural it is real. I don't mean to degrade anyone who is a Christian, who doesn't follow the teachings of LFF. I know that I don't have all, or even a small fraction of all, of the answers. I am happy for anyone who has found peace in what they believe. But don't let what you believe be a constant stress in your life like it was for me (and probably nearly everyone here) at LFF. If religion is to be anything, I think it needs to be a source of solace and peace, not stress and condemnation. If you can’t let religion be that, then it is better to not have religion at all.
I totally agree with you...In fact I hate religion...I hate what goes along wiht religion...did Christ actually have a religion???? I would have to say NOOOOOO!!! LFF created such a distorted picture of who God is and what his character is...the Bible clearly says that it's "God's Kindness" that leads to repentance. God is not a judging God yet...some day he will be but not yet! He does not have some hidden measuring stick that he uses to see who measures up and who doesn't nor does he have a hidden agenda.
God excepts everyone for who they are. I was sitting in my car the other day waiting on my husband and I saw this couple walk out of the grocery store who were pretty nasty looking. The woman had a long mullet and unkept hair and it looked like she hadn't bathed in like 3 or 4 days and the guy looked even worse!! I instantly kind of went YUCK! But then God spoke to my heart and said "You know I can't help it...I love them!" I and just thought you know that is so true of God's character. Then I began to think about LFF and how they rejected so many people and mistreated hundreds even thousands of others and how many are still under their thumb and all in the name of GOD!!! They only teach that God's love in CONDITIONAL and if you don't measure up you will be rejected but maybe just maybe God will harness you!!! LOL famous last words to me right before I left!!!! LOL I have news for you people I am still unharnessed!!!LOL I however am saddened when I do read that more than half of the people who responded to this are no longer believers. It truly is your choice and you should never feel pressured but I just simply ask each and everyone of you to get out a Bible and find out what God's true Character is and then make your decision based on that on the LFF GOD!!!!! EEEKKK!!! That could be a horror movie! Remember "It's Gods Kindness that Leads to Repentance."
And remember for those of you who are discouraged..."Start each day as if it were on purpose!" SMILE!
oops...typo...make your decision for God based on what you read not based on the LFF GOD!!!
To the last poster. I do believe what you meant to say was God ACCEPTS everyone for who they are. EXCEPTS would be exactly what LFF did. Don't mean to be picky on grammer but it totally changes the meaning. Good point, however.
I hate to use the word Christian, but I do definatly have a relationship with God. I am no longer at LFF, but I did grow up there. It has taken me a long time to even get to the point where I am even ready to acknowledge all the pain and distress the LFF and PCS and everything that they stand for. As I have been dealing with it and finding healing, I have begun to actually not hate myself, other people, and God. I actually love God now and want to have a relationship with Him. I have found that He is not in fact and angery, judgemental, revenge seeking prick that I thought He was. He is actually a loving, gracious, understanding, NON LEGALISTIC, patient God.
I wish I had known that 15 years ago. It would have saved me a lot of heartache.
i worship rocks and grass and trees. i like green tea and soy milk and organic wine. rocks make me feel pretty so i worship them but then every now and then there is a rock more beautiful than i and then i feel ugly and so i worship dirt. i am still a christian i worship god and his creation...rocks, dirt, trees, puppies, bunnies, i love nature.
Emphatically No! Never again. I have long ceased to believe in an all powerful "God". I am not an atheist, I just couldn't care about organized religion in any form.
Do you think LFF is good for anyone? ...perhaps it is just for those with a different calling?
re: "i worship rocks and grass and trees. i like green tea and soy milk and organic wine. rocks make me feel pretty so i worship them but then every now and then there is a rock more beautiful than i and then i feel ugly and so i worship dirt. i am still a christian i worship god and his creation...rocks, dirt, trees, puppies, bunnies, i love nature."
why do you have to worship things uglier than yourself? if you were uglier than dirt then what would you worship? thats an odd way of thinking.
is this a post by an LFFer to make us with legitimate concerns about this place appear wacky?
I bet LFFers are itching to respond to more comments but the governing bodies of the church prohibit or discourage it.
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